Those damned Libras and their commentsandrew_the_ogaMay 10 2008, 01:50:54 UTC
It's so hard to know whether to be encouraged by things like this.
So many people say that what we really need to do is stop looking for more-carbon-neutral ways to power cars, because we need to get rid of the cars (well, more generally, get rid of hydrocarbon-bond-breaking power) altogether. Fuel cells, biodiesel, all of it. Because it only "postpones" the environmental catastrophe of climate change and detracts from efforts to move beyond hydrocarbons entirely.
(Supposedly, president Herbert Hoover said, "Someone find me a one-armed economist, so I'll never hear, 'On the other hand--' again." And remember what Jean Stapleton sang about him...)
I think we have to remember, though, that liquid hydrocarbon fuel, intended for combustion in compressed air (ie., the diesel cycle) is just about the most efficient and convenient way we have to move energy around without wires or pipes. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's how we get the energy into the hydrogen-carbon bonds that's the issue. (Or hydrogen itself for the "hydrogen economy," but don't get me started; the easiest way to make hydrogen right now uses natural gas and makes, uhm, CO2.)
There are carbon-neutral ways to make hydrocarbon fuels, and this one that sister jillybean74 links to is surely worth looking at. At the risk of repeating myself (Risk? Actually it's a favourite guilty pleasure of mine...) we have to examine as many steps as we can, in every energy-using process we engage in, and evaluate whether we're adding to the atmospheric carbon load.
Usually, this is the point in casual conversation where I start getting little bits of froth at the corners of my mouth, and my friends start backing away as I wave my hands and sculpt the air for emphasis.
"Fast-neutron breeder plants," I start raving. "No one of conscience takes more than two hot showers a week. Plug-in electric cars. Hybrids by special permit only. High-voltage bulk DC transmission to every neighborhood. Did I mention the fast breeder plants? Fast-breeder plants. Houses all of concrete, and every roof covered in photovoltaic cells. No more than two hot showers a week, don't forget! Every park a wind farm..."
It's amazing I have any friends left at all. This was all just supposed to be about ethanol to mix into gasoline.
Re: Those damned Libras and their commentsjillybean74May 10 2008, 04:24:30 UTC
I have no problem with getting around in some type of non-human powered vehicles. I think it's essential if we're going to live in cities, where we are physically removed from most of the food sources (aside from what we might be able to grow on our patios or in our back yards). We tend to work away from where we live, so we need to travel. I don't see a return to subsistence farming any time soon. Sure, urban design can go a long way in minimizing the amount we have to drive, and we can make better choices about when/where we choose to go. The vehicles certainly have to become more efficient though, and if we're going to continue to use carbon sources to power them (whether we combust it or use the hydrogen in it to power a fuel cell), we are going to need to stop taking the carbon from the dead trees buried under the ground. Ideally, we could have a closed loop carbon cycle, if we got all the carbon from renewable sources... plants/algae. (In reality we all know that this will never happen until all the dead tree juice is sucked out of the ground. Thoughts like that make me sad so I try to be optimistic. Perhaps thinking hopefully about a fungus that can make ethanol is just my own wishful thinking and desire to have some hope for humanity.)
It would be nice to be able to use some of the massive amounts of waste cellulose out there. And it's pretty easy to grow cellulose. Imagine being able to use the whole corn plant, not just the seed?
All those things you mention... we need those too! We need everything possible as soon as possible. Admittedly, I don't know what fast breeder plants are. I guess I will have get my google fingers going.
So many people say that what we really need to do is stop looking for more-carbon-neutral ways to power cars, because we need to get rid of the cars (well, more generally, get rid of hydrocarbon-bond-breaking power) altogether. Fuel cells, biodiesel, all of it. Because it only "postpones" the environmental catastrophe of climate change and detracts from efforts to move beyond hydrocarbons entirely.
(Supposedly, president Herbert Hoover said, "Someone find me a one-armed economist, so I'll never hear, 'On the other hand--' again." And remember what Jean Stapleton sang about him...)
I think we have to remember, though, that liquid hydrocarbon fuel, intended for combustion in compressed air (ie., the diesel cycle) is just about the most efficient and convenient way we have to move energy around without wires or pipes. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's how we get the energy into the hydrogen-carbon bonds that's the issue. (Or hydrogen itself for the "hydrogen economy," but don't get me started; the easiest way to make hydrogen right now uses natural gas and makes, uhm, CO2.)
There are carbon-neutral ways to make hydrocarbon fuels, and this one that sister jillybean74 links to is surely worth looking at. At the risk of repeating myself (Risk? Actually it's a favourite guilty pleasure of mine...) we have to examine as many steps as we can, in every energy-using process we engage in, and evaluate whether we're adding to the atmospheric carbon load.
Usually, this is the point in casual conversation where I start getting little bits of froth at the corners of my mouth, and my friends start backing away as I wave my hands and sculpt the air for emphasis.
"Fast-neutron breeder plants," I start raving. "No one of conscience takes more than two hot showers a week. Plug-in electric cars. Hybrids by special permit only. High-voltage bulk DC transmission to every neighborhood. Did I mention the fast breeder plants? Fast-breeder plants. Houses all of concrete, and every roof covered in photovoltaic cells. No more than two hot showers a week, don't forget! Every park a wind farm..."
It's amazing I have any friends left at all. This was all just supposed to be about ethanol to mix into gasoline.
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It would be nice to be able to use some of the massive amounts of waste cellulose out there. And it's pretty easy to grow cellulose. Imagine being able to use the whole corn plant, not just the seed?
All those things you mention... we need those too! We need everything possible as soon as possible. Admittedly, I don't know what fast breeder plants are. I guess I will have get my google fingers going.
Reply
nuclear fission reactors
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