An Arrow reaction post
So it's been a while, let's see how this goes.
Obviously I've gotten away from my reviewing this season; then again the only things I might review are Arrow and The Good Place and neither have inspired me to write much about them so far. The Good Place is as good as ever; and Arrow has been pretty solid and mostly enjoyable this season.
But there is something about this last episode I felt inclined to talk about, so the likely brief return of the reaction post.
Arrow 8x06
This episode left me with a slightly odd feeling, not unlike how I sometimes feel with Supergirl or had with Elseworlds last year; that the show's morals just went to a place that I strongly disagree with. Because the final moral lesson of the episode is completely at odds with the episode's story, the series story, common sense, and everything I believe about godlike characters. In fact, if I understood the lesson we and Oliver were supposed to take from this, I in fact find in moral repugnant that that would be the lesson.
Godlike character are meant to be told to go to hell; fate is meant to be opposed; destiny is only a product of our own decisions; and get the hell out of galaxy, all of you. And yet this episode is all about laying down and accepting the 'inevitable' without actually proving that it is inevitable. The structure of the story doesn't even support that conclusion, and yet we're told that that's the conclusion Oliver had to accept and therefore apparently the correct one, and I don't get it.
Of note, because that point is made so blatantly, I'm not convinced it's going to be carried through in the remaining actions. On Supergirl and Elseworlds, I feel fairly confident that the moral argument that powerful characters are of more value that regular humans is probably not actually what they intend to say, it's just what I kept hearing in those stories. Here, the point they claim this is about is done so blatantly I almost feel like it's set up to be subverted. If they do, this could end up making more sense than it currently does. Because while this reaction post was largely prompted by my outrage over the moral we're given, the more I think about it the less sense this even makes, and how unearned it feels when we reach it
Look at it this way; Oliver wakes up at home without really understanding how he got there, he's already aware that something is off here (and don't think I'm not annoyed that we don't see more of Digg's reaction to all this); then he runs into Quentin, so it's obvious he's not in the same world. After the first loop Oliver concludes that he and Saurel (I admit she's not Siren, but Laurel is Laurel so I need another name) are effectively in a video game where they have to play it again and again until they get it right. They jump pretty quickly to 'save Lance, break the loop' but it's far from an unreasonable conclusion to draw as it's about the only lead they have. They do change the loop each time; they can change things. Saurel gets out of the loop by succeeding at getting to say goodbye to Quentin; but Oliver did say goodbye to Quentin, so why would he change his belief that success for him is to not have to lose Lance again?
Quentin here isn't Quentin, he's a video game NPC who is eventually used to spell out the lesson Oliver is supposed to learn, so it's ridiculous for me to play the 'why would Quentin come to that conclusion' game, because Quentin wouldn't. Quentin might have gotten to a point where he's dying so he needs to set Oliver free from protecting him to go fight the bigger threats, and that as something Oliver needs to be reminded of going into Crisis I would have been okay with. That facing a threat like this, he needs to prepared for the likelihood of his death, and to accept that someone else may have to carry on the work after he's gone. That's a fine moral, a heroic moral even, and probably a necessary one; but that's not what they do. It's not inevitable because the Monitor says it's inevitable and Oliver should just accept that; it's inevitable because Oliver is a guy with a bow and arrow about to go fight gods and he's probably going to die doing it.
Also this lesson about inevitability is at odds with the Monitor bringing the 2040 gang back. They're changing the future by being here, showing that the future can change and be changed. They're also the main thing that shook Oliver's willingness to go along with the Monitor's plan; he went into this knowing it would almost if not completely certainly die in the fight, but he was doing it to protect those he loves and to ensure that they survive to live in a better world even if he's not there to see it. By bringing the kids back, he's just given Oliver every reason to doubt that; to take away the faith that would have allowed Oliver to go through with what supposedly needs to be done. They're world sucks, and in the view he gets his absence is a big part of that; so what would he be dying for in that case?
Also, what he and Saurel have to accomplish is not of even importance; Oliver is supposed to accept that his fate is already written and can't be changed whatever he does (I still say he should go out swinging); while Saurel is allowed to take care of some unfinished business? That's also not even to having brought the kids back, which it's sort of compared to by both being something of a gift to them. And are you then going to say Digg didn't have anything to work through? In any case, that Oliver beat the game by claiming he learned the lesson he figured out was the point of the game doesn't mean anything, or at least it shouldn't.
And all of this is at odds with the idea that the Monitor is playing multi-dimensional chess and set Oliver on certain paths even if Oliver thought he was going against that fate. If the Monitor is playing that kind of game, this simplistic conclusion can't be the end goal, that's just dumb. Also I still don't feel like we have any real understanding of the Monitor's skill set or end goal; but this episode was spent torturing Oliver into compliance so why am I supposed to be on his side or believe he's on the heroes side?
Thinking of all the other times Oliver has been tortured into compliance by the bad guys; that's maybe even a bigger point that bringing up how Oliver has previously been placed in a mind bending prison by the Dominators trying to make people docile and compliant.
Also, based on the evidence Oliver had and putting it as a point on par with letting Saurel say goodbye to Quentin, I think Oliver's real lesson was to call his wife; that on his own he's never going to be as good as he could be with her beside him. Saurel even hints at that being something he could stand to remember. I'm just saying that apart from having NPC-Quentin spell out what Oliver was supposed to learn to beat the game, there were other conclusions that could have been drawn as the point of this.
Mostly and even from Quentin's own speech, I would have assumed that the point was that Oliver's work isn't done, that the enemies you think you're fighting are just the beginnings of bigger and bigger threats, that it never stops but you keep fighting anyway. As Galaxy Quest as it might be (and as opposite as it is to the apparent moral we were supposed to draw), never give up, never surrender. And that is the lesson I prefer my heroes to embody, and one that Oliver has to relearn periodically.
So yeah, my reaction to this episode it want to punch the Monitor in the face; and the fact that the dickishness is somewhat softened coming from Lyla (who I actually like) rather than directly from the inscrutable godlike being doesn't change my belief that everything about this moral is wrong. We'll see where that takes us in the next few weeks.
Also, I'm still holding out hope that part of Lyla working with the Monitor has to do with Sara somehow; never forget Sara Diggle and the fact that Barry erased her from existence.
Obviously I've gotten away from my reviewing this season; then again the only things I might review are Arrow and The Good Place and neither have inspired me to write much about them so far. The Good Place is as good as ever; and Arrow has been pretty solid and mostly enjoyable this season.
But there is something about this last episode I felt inclined to talk about, so the likely brief return of the reaction post.
Arrow 8x06
This episode left me with a slightly odd feeling, not unlike how I sometimes feel with Supergirl or had with Elseworlds last year; that the show's morals just went to a place that I strongly disagree with. Because the final moral lesson of the episode is completely at odds with the episode's story, the series story, common sense, and everything I believe about godlike characters. In fact, if I understood the lesson we and Oliver were supposed to take from this, I in fact find in moral repugnant that that would be the lesson.
Godlike character are meant to be told to go to hell; fate is meant to be opposed; destiny is only a product of our own decisions; and get the hell out of galaxy, all of you. And yet this episode is all about laying down and accepting the 'inevitable' without actually proving that it is inevitable. The structure of the story doesn't even support that conclusion, and yet we're told that that's the conclusion Oliver had to accept and therefore apparently the correct one, and I don't get it.
Of note, because that point is made so blatantly, I'm not convinced it's going to be carried through in the remaining actions. On Supergirl and Elseworlds, I feel fairly confident that the moral argument that powerful characters are of more value that regular humans is probably not actually what they intend to say, it's just what I kept hearing in those stories. Here, the point they claim this is about is done so blatantly I almost feel like it's set up to be subverted. If they do, this could end up making more sense than it currently does. Because while this reaction post was largely prompted by my outrage over the moral we're given, the more I think about it the less sense this even makes, and how unearned it feels when we reach it
Look at it this way; Oliver wakes up at home without really understanding how he got there, he's already aware that something is off here (and don't think I'm not annoyed that we don't see more of Digg's reaction to all this); then he runs into Quentin, so it's obvious he's not in the same world. After the first loop Oliver concludes that he and Saurel (I admit she's not Siren, but Laurel is Laurel so I need another name) are effectively in a video game where they have to play it again and again until they get it right. They jump pretty quickly to 'save Lance, break the loop' but it's far from an unreasonable conclusion to draw as it's about the only lead they have. They do change the loop each time; they can change things. Saurel gets out of the loop by succeeding at getting to say goodbye to Quentin; but Oliver did say goodbye to Quentin, so why would he change his belief that success for him is to not have to lose Lance again?
Quentin here isn't Quentin, he's a video game NPC who is eventually used to spell out the lesson Oliver is supposed to learn, so it's ridiculous for me to play the 'why would Quentin come to that conclusion' game, because Quentin wouldn't. Quentin might have gotten to a point where he's dying so he needs to set Oliver free from protecting him to go fight the bigger threats, and that as something Oliver needs to be reminded of going into Crisis I would have been okay with. That facing a threat like this, he needs to prepared for the likelihood of his death, and to accept that someone else may have to carry on the work after he's gone. That's a fine moral, a heroic moral even, and probably a necessary one; but that's not what they do. It's not inevitable because the Monitor says it's inevitable and Oliver should just accept that; it's inevitable because Oliver is a guy with a bow and arrow about to go fight gods and he's probably going to die doing it.
Also this lesson about inevitability is at odds with the Monitor bringing the 2040 gang back. They're changing the future by being here, showing that the future can change and be changed. They're also the main thing that shook Oliver's willingness to go along with the Monitor's plan; he went into this knowing it would almost if not completely certainly die in the fight, but he was doing it to protect those he loves and to ensure that they survive to live in a better world even if he's not there to see it. By bringing the kids back, he's just given Oliver every reason to doubt that; to take away the faith that would have allowed Oliver to go through with what supposedly needs to be done. They're world sucks, and in the view he gets his absence is a big part of that; so what would he be dying for in that case?
Also, what he and Saurel have to accomplish is not of even importance; Oliver is supposed to accept that his fate is already written and can't be changed whatever he does (I still say he should go out swinging); while Saurel is allowed to take care of some unfinished business? That's also not even to having brought the kids back, which it's sort of compared to by both being something of a gift to them. And are you then going to say Digg didn't have anything to work through? In any case, that Oliver beat the game by claiming he learned the lesson he figured out was the point of the game doesn't mean anything, or at least it shouldn't.
And all of this is at odds with the idea that the Monitor is playing multi-dimensional chess and set Oliver on certain paths even if Oliver thought he was going against that fate. If the Monitor is playing that kind of game, this simplistic conclusion can't be the end goal, that's just dumb. Also I still don't feel like we have any real understanding of the Monitor's skill set or end goal; but this episode was spent torturing Oliver into compliance so why am I supposed to be on his side or believe he's on the heroes side?
Thinking of all the other times Oliver has been tortured into compliance by the bad guys; that's maybe even a bigger point that bringing up how Oliver has previously been placed in a mind bending prison by the Dominators trying to make people docile and compliant.
Also, based on the evidence Oliver had and putting it as a point on par with letting Saurel say goodbye to Quentin, I think Oliver's real lesson was to call his wife; that on his own he's never going to be as good as he could be with her beside him. Saurel even hints at that being something he could stand to remember. I'm just saying that apart from having NPC-Quentin spell out what Oliver was supposed to learn to beat the game, there were other conclusions that could have been drawn as the point of this.
Mostly and even from Quentin's own speech, I would have assumed that the point was that Oliver's work isn't done, that the enemies you think you're fighting are just the beginnings of bigger and bigger threats, that it never stops but you keep fighting anyway. As Galaxy Quest as it might be (and as opposite as it is to the apparent moral we were supposed to draw), never give up, never surrender. And that is the lesson I prefer my heroes to embody, and one that Oliver has to relearn periodically.
So yeah, my reaction to this episode it want to punch the Monitor in the face; and the fact that the dickishness is somewhat softened coming from Lyla (who I actually like) rather than directly from the inscrutable godlike being doesn't change my belief that everything about this moral is wrong. We'll see where that takes us in the next few weeks.
Also, I'm still holding out hope that part of Lyla working with the Monitor has to do with Sara somehow; never forget Sara Diggle and the fact that Barry erased her from existence.