Only two shows made it to the end
I guess I should post these, at this point I doubt I’ll do reactions as I catch up on anything (if and when I do), so you might as well know how I felt about the season finales of these shows.
Arrow 6x23
To start with the big ending, that’s more or less what I expected after the setup last week. The strings attached were probably going to be something like this, so as Oliver was doing the farewell tour this episode it was pretty clear he was either going to die or be going away. On one hand I’m not at all sure how they get out of this and have a s7, on the other this would have been a pretty terrible end to the series so I guess I’m glad that they have another season.
I wish I felt more for...anything that happened in this episode. The final talk between Oliver and Quentin almost got to me, but Quentin’s actual death didn’t. I think mashing Quentin’s death and Oliver’s arrest up against each other was a mistake, because while I kind of had feelings about each, neither was fully formed on their own, and they didn’t go together. Also there was a lot of stuff leading up to the final parts that I had issues with; tag Quentin with the damn nanites that y’all used to have before sending him out to meet with Diaz, that way even if he gets abducted you can track him. I have mixed opinions of it working out that his two surrogate replacements for Laurel were the ones working to get him out of the building, it kind of worked and kind of didn’t. I am glad Sara was there, although I wish they could have had a scene; but I did actually like the Sara and Siren scene (at this point I’d probably put Siren on Legends, there’s no real reason to keep her on Arrow).
Also, not being well versed in law, this whole immunity thing seems...questionable. In s3 it kind of worked because the implication was that the whole Team Arrow would just be done, the police wouldn’t have any new reason to pursue the people who got immunity in that deal. But is it like a for good thing? Do they get protection out of it? Because his allies are pretty well known now, and if they’re going to keep acting as vigilantes aren’t they going to be known to the authorities when they do? And they would be the first suspects if, say, government computers continue to get hacked? I feel like the writers have really written themselves into some corners with this one; and not really given me enough to make me long to see how they get out of them (we’ll see how I feel next fall).
With the exception of Slade, this is the first big bad to survive (or at least that we’re shown survived at the time), and this time he’s not even captured, so there is that different. But since I think Diaz is a terrible character (an interesting idea for a big bad, but not a good character at all) I am not interested to see what he does next; I just worry about my homeboy Anatoli and wonder what happened to him (no way did Oliver get him immunity since it doesn’t seem like the feds even knew he was the inside source until he turned himself in; I could be wrong about that though and they were just trying to play up that he was still wanted at first in case word got back to Diaz).
I don’t know when I’ll bother to rewatch this season, there hasn’t come a time when I’ve decided to rage quit and say my version of the show stopped at some earlier point, but the show has gone on long enough and the last few seasons have been so...meh that rewatching the whole show is a big undertaking of diminishing returns (plus being a completist I’d think I should rewatch other shows with it and...even less interested in most cases). At some point I’ll restart the series as a whole, possibly go back to reviewing them (when I at some point run out of gas doing TXF) and I won’t avoid this season, but I’m not going to go out of my way to revisit it. I come out of this season less angry at some of the choices they made compared to where I was last at season’s finale, but very little this season has excited me to make me anxious for when it comes back. So I would call the season meh with some bits of good and a few bits of bad, so leaving us with very meh.
Agents of SHIELD 5x22
I had thought for a hot moment at the beginning that I might end up quasi-live-blogging this, because the argument scene to the beginning made me pause the episode right off the bat and record some thoughts: namely, that fandom called this exact argument months ago:
Yoyo: We have to let Coulson die
May: Fuck that noise.
It was really telegraphed the moment the camera focused on the Odium in the foreground and May in the background what she was going to do (I went back and clocked it, it’s a full minute where they keep arguing and I was just waiting for them to cut back to May having poured the Odium on the floor because she’s been telling people for years/decades that Coulson dies over her dead body - the fact that she didn’t get to murder that Asgardian son of a bitch still pisses her off). And then I thought back on how this isn’t even the first time she’s had this argument. For example pre-s1:
Fury: I need you to keep an eye on Coulson for me.
May: Like I was going to let him die again.
Fury: And kill him if he proves to be unstable.
May: Fuck that noise.
Fury: ...how about we put another specialist on this team. The most detached one we can find. Hill, try to find someone who can take May in a fight if it comes to it.
Also season 2:
Coulson: I need you to promise to kill me if I lose it.
May: Fuck that noise, we’re going to Australia.
Also in the Framework:
Simmons: Coulson is dying.
May: I barely know him, but I know my proper response to that is fuck that noise.
But then I got more drawn into the episode, so I didn’t really end up recording my thoughts as I went. I don’t know that I liked this episode, or this conclusion to this arc, or possibly this arc in general, but ignoring the fact that in about four hours half these people are going to be snapped out of existence it’s...not a terrible place to leave it (also how do our religiously inclined team members feel about the rapture, because it’s about to happen).
I’m a little upset that they so quickly told us how they were going to bring Fitz back. I wasn’t quite crying over his death scene but it did get to me, and while I don’t want him dead and it makes sense that they would figure it out fairly quickly I still feel a little cheated. Granted, if half of them weren’t going to be snapped out of existence soon, Agents in Space (really this time) could have been a solid adventure for them to go on.
Though for that Search for Fitz arc to work, I wish they would have done more to elevate Piper and Davis’ characters going in to it. I like them, but they’re minor characters still. I hope they’re given a chance to shine next season, especially if they do this potentially very claustrophobic season. There seems to be some idea that this is the time when Mom and Dad let the kids go off and do the mission without them, but they have these two neighbor kids we barely know that are coming along for some reason (luckily Davis can fly the plane, ‘cause Mom was not coming with them). Also we still don’t know Davis’ deal, boo. They may be snap fodder, though, then I wonder how they land the plane since they’re even lacking their half-trained pilot.
I don’t like this as an end for Talbot. Granted, he’s floating in space and full of gravatonium so he might survive and come back, but I don’t really see how they can bring him back from this point as a character. I haven’t always liked Talbot, but then who has? But this ending is just too tragic, and the show barely acknowledges how awful it is. He has always been someone trying his best to be a good man, and he lived long enough to see himself become the villain. I think this final arc could have worked, but it doesn’t; I can’t, off the top of my head, say how I would have done it differently, but I can feel the seeds of a good plot there but I didn’t see it play out very well.
There were elements of the team dynamics that I really liked. I like that Mack is the one in charge he’s been the logical choice for a long time. He’s the only one who can actually lead especially since I (unlike Phil) always knew that if Coulson died May was not going to be up for taking on the mantle. And I like the way Daisy made that choice, that if she has any leadership capabilities in her, she has to realize she doesn’t have enough to lead yet, so her first (and for now last) choice is to not be the leader. I actually like Daisy relatively well this episode (note that I’m still not putting her back to Skye though); I’m okay with her being a superhero (I guess...sometimes), I was just really annoyed by the idea that she should be leading. She’s good with Talbot, and it’s really not her fault he’s been screwed up enough times and probably still has a traumatic brain injury and PTSD from being tortured that he wouldn’t be talked down.
On the flip side I don’t believe for a second May was letting Coulson out of her sight and let Davis fly that side of the mission. Yes it made sense to round out her arc with Robin by having her be part of that, but it just wasn’t in character. And having her round out that arc with Robin is part of why the cure-tango of the episode ends up not working entirely for me; because the story felt like May gave up on her chance to be a mother to Robin when she made the choice that was supposed to save Phil. Not that it’s probably even a question that that is a choice she makes every time, but because her story has the trapping of being a tradeoff between the two future, denying her either and not really focusing much at all on what she is losing in all this, is part of why the plot mechanics don’t quite gel for me.
And this episode establishing SHIELD as regaining some public trust only to have them abandon the people of Earth and fly their clubhouse into space doesn’t feel quite right either. Granted, considering the timing, they’re going to make it almost to the moon before they have to turn around and help sort out the snap problem.
I think I like this as a choice for Deke; not letting us know exactly what happened to him. Maybe he doesn’t exist anymore, maybe he’s out exploring the world; the writers can decide later, if it ever matters. The ambiguity works for me in this case. Showing that he was definitely gone would have been maybe a bit too much darkness, but confirming that he’s still alive feels wrong for this episode.
It works less well for me in Coulson’s case. I’m glad they didn’t kill him off, I don’t think I could have handled that, but there’s something weird about the way they left it (aside from the green screen beach). It’s not finished enough to be the end of his story, and too optimistic for the timeframe we have; but they didn’t actually leave themselves a way out. If you ignore the fact that he’s dying, I’d be perfectly happy if this was the end; let them retire, they’ve carried the world on their backs long enough and it’s kept them apart for too long; they can cameo, but maybe it is time to let a new generation take over. But the full context doesn’t work for me as an end.
It’s probably a good thing I knew going in that the scene on the plane wasn’t him leaving May, because if I’d watched that scene without knowing that fact, it might have pissed me off. I’m already pissed off that Simmons apparently didn’t get a goodbye hug, and that nobody says anything to May, if I’d thought for a moment he was walking away and I wasn’t getting a proper send off for him and May, I would have liked that a lot less. After their early scene there probably should have been some proper follow through but think I can find it; because he’s not leaving her behind, she’s the one he never could leave behind. He knows he’ll still die, but until then, they’ve got this ‘til death do us part’ thing settled.
If the show does kill Coulson (which I neither desire, expect, or will accept), I wouldn’t expect to see much of May either (at least with an in character reaction). She may not quite go through on following him to the grave (and again, never letting that go), but she has always been in this for him; and if the kids are ready to go off on their own, let her go her own way too. Let her bury her heart with her effective or possibly factual husband, then go find Lola and figure out what comes next; assuming the great snap wasn’t involved.
I’d like to think next season premier (taking place in some timeline sans great snap) focuses on the team getting used to flying in space and towards the end, Daisy reads Coulson’s letter and we’re lead to believe that’s his final goodbye; then the stinger is a plane landing in Tahiti; we see Coulson and May cuddled together, he’s weak but still holding on and they’re clearly together; a figure approaches their beach cottage.
Fury: So after all this time, I didn’t get invited to the wedding? I’d been working on my toast for decades.
Coulson: Sorry, sir, there wasn’t a lot of time. I’m sort of my way out.
Fury: To quote your better half here (many times, seriously Phil, how did it take you so long to see the blindingly obvious?); fuck that noise.
Arrow 6x23
To start with the big ending, that’s more or less what I expected after the setup last week. The strings attached were probably going to be something like this, so as Oliver was doing the farewell tour this episode it was pretty clear he was either going to die or be going away. On one hand I’m not at all sure how they get out of this and have a s7, on the other this would have been a pretty terrible end to the series so I guess I’m glad that they have another season.
I wish I felt more for...anything that happened in this episode. The final talk between Oliver and Quentin almost got to me, but Quentin’s actual death didn’t. I think mashing Quentin’s death and Oliver’s arrest up against each other was a mistake, because while I kind of had feelings about each, neither was fully formed on their own, and they didn’t go together. Also there was a lot of stuff leading up to the final parts that I had issues with; tag Quentin with the damn nanites that y’all used to have before sending him out to meet with Diaz, that way even if he gets abducted you can track him. I have mixed opinions of it working out that his two surrogate replacements for Laurel were the ones working to get him out of the building, it kind of worked and kind of didn’t. I am glad Sara was there, although I wish they could have had a scene; but I did actually like the Sara and Siren scene (at this point I’d probably put Siren on Legends, there’s no real reason to keep her on Arrow).
Also, not being well versed in law, this whole immunity thing seems...questionable. In s3 it kind of worked because the implication was that the whole Team Arrow would just be done, the police wouldn’t have any new reason to pursue the people who got immunity in that deal. But is it like a for good thing? Do they get protection out of it? Because his allies are pretty well known now, and if they’re going to keep acting as vigilantes aren’t they going to be known to the authorities when they do? And they would be the first suspects if, say, government computers continue to get hacked? I feel like the writers have really written themselves into some corners with this one; and not really given me enough to make me long to see how they get out of them (we’ll see how I feel next fall).
With the exception of Slade, this is the first big bad to survive (or at least that we’re shown survived at the time), and this time he’s not even captured, so there is that different. But since I think Diaz is a terrible character (an interesting idea for a big bad, but not a good character at all) I am not interested to see what he does next; I just worry about my homeboy Anatoli and wonder what happened to him (no way did Oliver get him immunity since it doesn’t seem like the feds even knew he was the inside source until he turned himself in; I could be wrong about that though and they were just trying to play up that he was still wanted at first in case word got back to Diaz).
I don’t know when I’ll bother to rewatch this season, there hasn’t come a time when I’ve decided to rage quit and say my version of the show stopped at some earlier point, but the show has gone on long enough and the last few seasons have been so...meh that rewatching the whole show is a big undertaking of diminishing returns (plus being a completist I’d think I should rewatch other shows with it and...even less interested in most cases). At some point I’ll restart the series as a whole, possibly go back to reviewing them (when I at some point run out of gas doing TXF) and I won’t avoid this season, but I’m not going to go out of my way to revisit it. I come out of this season less angry at some of the choices they made compared to where I was last at season’s finale, but very little this season has excited me to make me anxious for when it comes back. So I would call the season meh with some bits of good and a few bits of bad, so leaving us with very meh.
Agents of SHIELD 5x22
I had thought for a hot moment at the beginning that I might end up quasi-live-blogging this, because the argument scene to the beginning made me pause the episode right off the bat and record some thoughts: namely, that fandom called this exact argument months ago:
Yoyo: We have to let Coulson die
May: Fuck that noise.
It was really telegraphed the moment the camera focused on the Odium in the foreground and May in the background what she was going to do (I went back and clocked it, it’s a full minute where they keep arguing and I was just waiting for them to cut back to May having poured the Odium on the floor because she’s been telling people for years/decades that Coulson dies over her dead body - the fact that she didn’t get to murder that Asgardian son of a bitch still pisses her off). And then I thought back on how this isn’t even the first time she’s had this argument. For example pre-s1:
Fury: I need you to keep an eye on Coulson for me.
May: Like I was going to let him die again.
Fury: And kill him if he proves to be unstable.
May: Fuck that noise.
Fury: ...how about we put another specialist on this team. The most detached one we can find. Hill, try to find someone who can take May in a fight if it comes to it.
Also season 2:
Coulson: I need you to promise to kill me if I lose it.
May: Fuck that noise, we’re going to Australia.
Also in the Framework:
Simmons: Coulson is dying.
May: I barely know him, but I know my proper response to that is fuck that noise.
But then I got more drawn into the episode, so I didn’t really end up recording my thoughts as I went. I don’t know that I liked this episode, or this conclusion to this arc, or possibly this arc in general, but ignoring the fact that in about four hours half these people are going to be snapped out of existence it’s...not a terrible place to leave it (also how do our religiously inclined team members feel about the rapture, because it’s about to happen).
I’m a little upset that they so quickly told us how they were going to bring Fitz back. I wasn’t quite crying over his death scene but it did get to me, and while I don’t want him dead and it makes sense that they would figure it out fairly quickly I still feel a little cheated. Granted, if half of them weren’t going to be snapped out of existence soon, Agents in Space (really this time) could have been a solid adventure for them to go on.
Though for that Search for Fitz arc to work, I wish they would have done more to elevate Piper and Davis’ characters going in to it. I like them, but they’re minor characters still. I hope they’re given a chance to shine next season, especially if they do this potentially very claustrophobic season. There seems to be some idea that this is the time when Mom and Dad let the kids go off and do the mission without them, but they have these two neighbor kids we barely know that are coming along for some reason (luckily Davis can fly the plane, ‘cause Mom was not coming with them). Also we still don’t know Davis’ deal, boo. They may be snap fodder, though, then I wonder how they land the plane since they’re even lacking their half-trained pilot.
I don’t like this as an end for Talbot. Granted, he’s floating in space and full of gravatonium so he might survive and come back, but I don’t really see how they can bring him back from this point as a character. I haven’t always liked Talbot, but then who has? But this ending is just too tragic, and the show barely acknowledges how awful it is. He has always been someone trying his best to be a good man, and he lived long enough to see himself become the villain. I think this final arc could have worked, but it doesn’t; I can’t, off the top of my head, say how I would have done it differently, but I can feel the seeds of a good plot there but I didn’t see it play out very well.
There were elements of the team dynamics that I really liked. I like that Mack is the one in charge he’s been the logical choice for a long time. He’s the only one who can actually lead especially since I (unlike Phil) always knew that if Coulson died May was not going to be up for taking on the mantle. And I like the way Daisy made that choice, that if she has any leadership capabilities in her, she has to realize she doesn’t have enough to lead yet, so her first (and for now last) choice is to not be the leader. I actually like Daisy relatively well this episode (note that I’m still not putting her back to Skye though); I’m okay with her being a superhero (I guess...sometimes), I was just really annoyed by the idea that she should be leading. She’s good with Talbot, and it’s really not her fault he’s been screwed up enough times and probably still has a traumatic brain injury and PTSD from being tortured that he wouldn’t be talked down.
On the flip side I don’t believe for a second May was letting Coulson out of her sight and let Davis fly that side of the mission. Yes it made sense to round out her arc with Robin by having her be part of that, but it just wasn’t in character. And having her round out that arc with Robin is part of why the cure-tango of the episode ends up not working entirely for me; because the story felt like May gave up on her chance to be a mother to Robin when she made the choice that was supposed to save Phil. Not that it’s probably even a question that that is a choice she makes every time, but because her story has the trapping of being a tradeoff between the two future, denying her either and not really focusing much at all on what she is losing in all this, is part of why the plot mechanics don’t quite gel for me.
And this episode establishing SHIELD as regaining some public trust only to have them abandon the people of Earth and fly their clubhouse into space doesn’t feel quite right either. Granted, considering the timing, they’re going to make it almost to the moon before they have to turn around and help sort out the snap problem.
I think I like this as a choice for Deke; not letting us know exactly what happened to him. Maybe he doesn’t exist anymore, maybe he’s out exploring the world; the writers can decide later, if it ever matters. The ambiguity works for me in this case. Showing that he was definitely gone would have been maybe a bit too much darkness, but confirming that he’s still alive feels wrong for this episode.
It works less well for me in Coulson’s case. I’m glad they didn’t kill him off, I don’t think I could have handled that, but there’s something weird about the way they left it (aside from the green screen beach). It’s not finished enough to be the end of his story, and too optimistic for the timeframe we have; but they didn’t actually leave themselves a way out. If you ignore the fact that he’s dying, I’d be perfectly happy if this was the end; let them retire, they’ve carried the world on their backs long enough and it’s kept them apart for too long; they can cameo, but maybe it is time to let a new generation take over. But the full context doesn’t work for me as an end.
It’s probably a good thing I knew going in that the scene on the plane wasn’t him leaving May, because if I’d watched that scene without knowing that fact, it might have pissed me off. I’m already pissed off that Simmons apparently didn’t get a goodbye hug, and that nobody says anything to May, if I’d thought for a moment he was walking away and I wasn’t getting a proper send off for him and May, I would have liked that a lot less. After their early scene there probably should have been some proper follow through but think I can find it; because he’s not leaving her behind, she’s the one he never could leave behind. He knows he’ll still die, but until then, they’ve got this ‘til death do us part’ thing settled.
If the show does kill Coulson (which I neither desire, expect, or will accept), I wouldn’t expect to see much of May either (at least with an in character reaction). She may not quite go through on following him to the grave (and again, never letting that go), but she has always been in this for him; and if the kids are ready to go off on their own, let her go her own way too. Let her bury her heart with her effective or possibly factual husband, then go find Lola and figure out what comes next; assuming the great snap wasn’t involved.
I’d like to think next season premier (taking place in some timeline sans great snap) focuses on the team getting used to flying in space and towards the end, Daisy reads Coulson’s letter and we’re lead to believe that’s his final goodbye; then the stinger is a plane landing in Tahiti; we see Coulson and May cuddled together, he’s weak but still holding on and they’re clearly together; a figure approaches their beach cottage.
Fury: So after all this time, I didn’t get invited to the wedding? I’d been working on my toast for decades.
Coulson: Sorry, sir, there wasn’t a lot of time. I’m sort of my way out.
Fury: To quote your better half here (many times, seriously Phil, how did it take you so long to see the blindingly obvious?); fuck that noise.