concepts, religion and society
yesterday 0 today 0.
So, last night I had a rather enjoyable discussion with Castor and Pollux in which amongst other philosophizing it was suggested that I consider not just the concepts of thelema hung upon the framework of traditional western judeo-christian good-person-ism that we've all grown up in, but to consider trying them on within the framework of thelema.
Well, Being unable to really determine what the framework was if not these core concepts, I asked. I understood the answer to be, that culture and ingrained beliefes that come from it. EG: Even if someone grows up in America non-christian, raised by non-christian parents, they're going to have a good smattering of christian based beliefs taken for granted in the same way many people take the base 10 counting concept for granted, not realizing there IS anything else, and if they do, still trying to relate it back to those concepts like a gringo in mexico trying to speak Spanish and think English. Trust me on at least that last one, it doesn't work.
However, on the flip side, I found my christianity to be most powerfull when I ripped it away from the culture that surrounded it.
While I believe the 4 noble truths of buddhisim to be true, I reject the concept of renouncement that the second noble truth implies (yes, dukha is caused by desire. no, this is not a "bad thing") I am not a buddhist, but I believe that the 8 fold path stands on it's own completely removed from budhist culture.
As a matter of fact, while I believe that it is necessary to think in the same manner as your language and beliefs, to absorb them as your own and allow a full mental transformation, which I believe was the point, (and consequently, this is just a diatribe, unless I missed the point, and it was what I'm ranting against, in which case....)
But at the time we were talking about culture. Is there a Thelemic culture? Liber Al was transcribed bairly a century ago. Very few people have been born into Thelemic families. How many have been born into Thelemic culture? I might know one person. (having seen the lad get baptised a short while ago)
So, I'd be curious to hear ones thoughts on thelmeic culture.
Anyway, it has been my observation that the culture of Christianity has severly weakend it.
Akoni has told me stories of buddhism in India and Sri Lanka that sound like Christianity here.
So while I believe that internalizing the knowledge, understanding, and mindset of thelemic action and communication is key, I don't necessarily believe that thelemic culture would strengthen ones walk down that path. Culture establishes a norm, and allows one to proceed without thinking. It defines what is expected and provides simple answers to what should be thought provoking questions. Give me the company of fellow thinkers. Give me people who are united towards a common goal, but its my thought at least at the moment that Thelema, indeed, any spiritual pursuit, is better off without it's culture.
It's also 12:06, I'm tired, and I'm most likely wrong.
As Samuel Clemens once said, "If I'd had more time I'd have writen a shorter letter". Perhaps when I'm awake and concious I'll revisit this theme and put some more thought into it and then see how I feel.
for now it's down where I can review it later.
-- James
So, last night I had a rather enjoyable discussion with Castor and Pollux in which amongst other philosophizing it was suggested that I consider not just the concepts of thelema hung upon the framework of traditional western judeo-christian good-person-ism that we've all grown up in, but to consider trying them on within the framework of thelema.
Well, Being unable to really determine what the framework was if not these core concepts, I asked. I understood the answer to be, that culture and ingrained beliefes that come from it. EG: Even if someone grows up in America non-christian, raised by non-christian parents, they're going to have a good smattering of christian based beliefs taken for granted in the same way many people take the base 10 counting concept for granted, not realizing there IS anything else, and if they do, still trying to relate it back to those concepts like a gringo in mexico trying to speak Spanish and think English. Trust me on at least that last one, it doesn't work.
However, on the flip side, I found my christianity to be most powerfull when I ripped it away from the culture that surrounded it.
While I believe the 4 noble truths of buddhisim to be true, I reject the concept of renouncement that the second noble truth implies (yes, dukha is caused by desire. no, this is not a "bad thing") I am not a buddhist, but I believe that the 8 fold path stands on it's own completely removed from budhist culture.
As a matter of fact, while I believe that it is necessary to think in the same manner as your language and beliefs, to absorb them as your own and allow a full mental transformation, which I believe was the point, (and consequently, this is just a diatribe, unless I missed the point, and it was what I'm ranting against, in which case....)
But at the time we were talking about culture. Is there a Thelemic culture? Liber Al was transcribed bairly a century ago. Very few people have been born into Thelemic families. How many have been born into Thelemic culture? I might know one person. (having seen the lad get baptised a short while ago)
So, I'd be curious to hear ones thoughts on thelmeic culture.
Anyway, it has been my observation that the culture of Christianity has severly weakend it.
Akoni has told me stories of buddhism in India and Sri Lanka that sound like Christianity here.
So while I believe that internalizing the knowledge, understanding, and mindset of thelemic action and communication is key, I don't necessarily believe that thelemic culture would strengthen ones walk down that path. Culture establishes a norm, and allows one to proceed without thinking. It defines what is expected and provides simple answers to what should be thought provoking questions. Give me the company of fellow thinkers. Give me people who are united towards a common goal, but its my thought at least at the moment that Thelema, indeed, any spiritual pursuit, is better off without it's culture.
It's also 12:06, I'm tired, and I'm most likely wrong.
As Samuel Clemens once said, "If I'd had more time I'd have writen a shorter letter". Perhaps when I'm awake and concious I'll revisit this theme and put some more thought into it and then see how I feel.
for now it's down where I can review it later.
-- James