If you've read just about anything I've written since the age of 17 I think it should be fairly apparent to you that I have a problem with Joseph W Campbell and the Hero's Journey
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Re: BullshitjasonfranksJanuary 27 2009, 09:50:21 UTC
AMERICAN PSYCHO is a particularly interesting one to look at.
Patrick Bateman is the protagonist, but he's also the villain.
He does not go on a journey, he's just himself. He has a couple of episodes where his sanity crumbles, and then reverts back to its nominal state, but nothing about Patrick is ever going to change for good. "This is not an exit."
At the start of the novel, one of Bateman's closest friends is Price. In fact, at the opening of the book, the story seems to be about Price: there's no indication that Bateman is present, let alone that he is narrating the book, for at least a couple of pages. There's no I, not even to claim lines of dialogue that he might have spoken, for pages--when Bateman finallyasserts himself it's a shock.
Price is another scumbag yuppie, just like Bateman. He disappears out of the book fairly early on and he doesn't reappear until the end. It's not clear then if Batemen even missed him, but it is clear that somethign has happened to him. He's been on a journey, he's a changed man... even Bateman can see that. But he won't say what it was, and in the end Price's mysterious adventure is irrelevant to Bateman's story.
That, to me, reads as if Ellis is showing us the road not taken: the hero's journey that Bateman can never be part of.
American PyschospatulaladJanuary 27 2009, 19:08:47 UTC
I'll admit; I only know the film, not the book.
But even if Bateman's story is a just a flat line of depravity, sadism, and apathy, he's still the hero of his story. He persists and makes choices, even if those choices only prove how fundamentally empty and inhuman he is.
Re: American PyschojasonfranksJanuary 27 2009, 22:15:55 UTC
There is a lot more material in the book than in the film. The book is a lot more depraved... and also a lot funnier (not at the same time), because Bateman and his interchangeable mates just don't realize how stupid they are.
I think our difference is one of terminology; I want to say that a hero is different to a protagonist--Sherlock Holmes is the hero while Watson is the protagonist--but at this point I think we need to just recognize a difference of opinion and let it be. In my head, that's how I think of it, but I don't think it's really that easy a distinction to make. I really like Elmore Leonard's books because he gives everybody a chance to be the protagonist. I really like THE WIRE for the same reason--you get to barrack (I refuse to say 'root') for characters on all the different sides.
AMERICAN PSYCHO is a particularly interesting one to look at.
Patrick Bateman is the protagonist, but he's also the villain.
He does not go on a journey, he's just himself. He has a couple of episodes where his sanity crumbles, and then reverts back to its nominal state, but nothing about Patrick is ever going to change for good. "This is not an exit."
At the start of the novel, one of Bateman's closest friends is Price. In fact, at the opening of the book, the story seems to be about Price: there's no indication that Bateman is present, let alone that he is narrating the book, for at least a couple of pages. There's no I, not even to claim lines of dialogue that he might have spoken, for pages--when Bateman finallyasserts himself it's a shock.
Price is another scumbag yuppie, just like Bateman. He disappears out of the book fairly early on and he doesn't reappear until the end. It's not clear then if Batemen even missed him, but it is clear that somethign has happened to him. He's been on a journey, he's a changed man... even Bateman can see that. But he won't say what it was, and in the end Price's mysterious adventure is irrelevant to Bateman's story.
That, to me, reads as if Ellis is showing us the road not taken: the hero's journey that Bateman can never be part of.
-- JF
Reply
But even if Bateman's story is a just a flat line of depravity, sadism, and apathy, he's still the hero of his story. He persists and makes choices, even if those choices only prove how fundamentally empty and inhuman he is.
Reply
There is a lot more material in the book than in the film. The book is a lot more depraved... and also a lot funnier (not at the same time), because Bateman and his interchangeable mates just don't realize how stupid they are.
I think our difference is one of terminology; I want to say that a hero is different to a protagonist--Sherlock Holmes is the hero while Watson is the protagonist--but at this point I think we need to just recognize a difference of opinion and let it be. In my head, that's how I think of it, but I don't think it's really that easy a distinction to make. I really like Elmore Leonard's books because he gives everybody a chance to be the protagonist. I really like THE WIRE for the same reason--you get to barrack (I refuse to say 'root') for characters on all the different sides.
-- JF
Reply
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