Been a lot of discussion hereabouts lately, and I'm glad to see it. We don't all agree, but then who ever thought we would? It's been fascinating and enlightening, all of it
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. How can we achieve that if we frown so strongly on discussion AT ALL?
This is an interesting point. I think discussion is interesting - often necessary and valid. We should be able to discuss things in an adult way without people's feelings getting hurt.
I posted this week to say I get tired when...when that discussion becomes unnecessary. I feared I would come over like I was saying - don't discuss things -which I wasn't. But: Sometimes topics get dragged on, nothing new it said, and that's when it turns into name calling and upset feelings. That's when even mentioning it becomes carrying ON the topic that really, should be left lie. When nobody is saying anything new, and it all becomes ridiculousness.
I think, personally, that is when it gets labelled wank - when it crosses that line and spins out of control and into madness and it's all you can see on LJ.
Cause some days I feel like I am wading through a mire of comments on whatever topic it is? Which is not to deny people's need to discuss their feelings, to learn what others think, to educate and inform - that is what we are all here for! But.... we don't all do things in a sensible and informative manner. Sometimes it strangles other interesting or creative or fun stuff that might be going on. Sometimes, I am NOT going to SEE the interesting posts, because the crazycakes ones are taking over and I end up just flicking past it all.
Which is a shame.
I wish we could all shake hands, agree to disagree, and go our separate ways. But that isn't always the case, people want to convert or simply be heard the loudest... I mean, people are people, everywhere you go. And... I don't know what the answer is. I have been thinking a lot about this this week, so anyway. Those are my thoughts so far!
No, I agree that sometimes it does degenerate into name-calling and wank. But ALL discussion doesn't do that. And to avoid discussion because it MIGHT do that is to essentially throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I wish we could all shake hands, agree to disagree, and go our separate ways.
Maybe that would be good -- but who learns anything by always doing that? We perpetuate misunderstanding if we NEVER talk about issues. We never see the other side, you know?
Beyond a certain point, yes, sometimes you just have to shake hands and walk away. But sometimes if we just discuss things, explain our feelings and thoughts, we might actually learn and understand more. And that positive outcome will never happen if we avoid discussion simply out of fear that it might turn into wank. You know what I'm saying?
Beyond a certain point, yes, sometimes you just have to shake hands and walk away
Ah that is what I meant. I didn't mean, straight off do that! LOL! Of course you never learn if you never discuss things.
But...Sometimes I feel like people are out to convert - to have everybody think the way they do! That's when it turns tiring - cause sometimes you have to say: well, thank you, interesting, and goodbye.
I guess it is the difference between wanting to win an argument (which is how some discussions are approached, i strongly fear) and wanting to have an interesting even if heated debate. Does that make sense? The latter is good and should be encouraged.
And I get totally what you are saying. We shouldn't avoid discussion. I wish we could all behave ourselves during it, but perhaps that is a distant dream ;)
Sometimes I feel like people are out to convert - to have everybody think the way they do!
There's a fine line here, I think. When I make an argument, I make it as solid an argument as I can. That doesn't mean it always IS solid and air-tight, but only that I've sought to make it so.
Is that an attempt to convert you to my way of thinking? I'm not sure. When I'm making an argument I AM striving to make it as convincing as possible. But it doesn't mean I think I'm completely right or that someone else is wrong. And it definitely doesn't mean I won't tolerate it if after reading my argument you still disagree with me. You know?
In opening my own journal to discussion I've always kept an eye open for what I think IS wank, lines that I do not want to see crossed here. But you know? I haven't seen wank. I've seen heated discussion, strong opinions, and plenty of disagreement here and there. But I DO think we can handle discussion, as fans, if we want to. I agree, sometimes we don't -- we WANT to wank sometimes, and see above for my theories as to largely why. But it isn't always that way.
I agree, sometimes we don't -- we WANT to wank sometimes, and see above for my theories as to largely why. But it isn't always that way.
Indeed. My frustration is that I feel the wankery/arguing for the sake of arguing often creates such bad feeling that people then don't have the time or energy for proper discussion. when it pops along. If that makes sense.
This is an interesting point. I think discussion is interesting - often necessary and valid. We should be able to discuss things in an adult way without people's feelings getting hurt.
I posted this week to say I get tired when...when that discussion becomes unnecessary. I feared I would come over like I was saying - don't discuss things -which I wasn't. But: Sometimes topics get dragged on, nothing new it said, and that's when it turns into name calling and upset feelings. That's when even mentioning it becomes carrying ON the topic that really, should be left lie. When nobody is saying anything new, and it all becomes ridiculousness.
I think, personally, that is when it gets labelled wank - when it crosses that line and spins out of control and into madness and it's all you can see on LJ.
Cause some days I feel like I am wading through a mire of comments on whatever topic it is? Which is not to deny people's need to discuss their feelings, to learn what others think, to educate and inform - that is what we are all here for! But.... we don't all do things in a sensible and informative manner. Sometimes it strangles other interesting or creative or fun stuff that might be going on. Sometimes, I am NOT going to SEE the interesting posts, because the crazycakes ones are taking over and I end up just flicking past it all.
Which is a shame.
I wish we could all shake hands, agree to disagree, and go our separate ways. But that isn't always the case, people want to convert or simply be heard the loudest... I mean, people are people, everywhere you go. And... I don't know what the answer is. I have been thinking a lot about this this week, so anyway. Those are my thoughts so far!
Reply
I wish we could all shake hands, agree to disagree, and go our separate ways.
Maybe that would be good -- but who learns anything by always doing that? We perpetuate misunderstanding if we NEVER talk about issues. We never see the other side, you know?
Beyond a certain point, yes, sometimes you just have to shake hands and walk away. But sometimes if we just discuss things, explain our feelings and thoughts, we might actually learn and understand more. And that positive outcome will never happen if we avoid discussion simply out of fear that it might turn into wank. You know what I'm saying?
Reply
Ah that is what I meant. I didn't mean, straight off do that! LOL! Of course you never learn if you never discuss things.
But...Sometimes I feel like people are out to convert - to have everybody think the way they do! That's when it turns tiring - cause sometimes you have to say: well, thank you, interesting, and goodbye.
I guess it is the difference between wanting to win an argument (which is how some discussions are approached, i strongly fear) and wanting to have an interesting even if heated debate. Does that make sense? The latter is good and should be encouraged.
And I get totally what you are saying. We shouldn't avoid discussion. I wish we could all behave ourselves during it, but perhaps that is a distant dream ;)
Reply
There's a fine line here, I think. When I make an argument, I make it as solid an argument as I can. That doesn't mean it always IS solid and air-tight, but only that I've sought to make it so.
Is that an attempt to convert you to my way of thinking? I'm not sure. When I'm making an argument I AM striving to make it as convincing as possible. But it doesn't mean I think I'm completely right or that someone else is wrong. And it definitely doesn't mean I won't tolerate it if after reading my argument you still disagree with me. You know?
In opening my own journal to discussion I've always kept an eye open for what I think IS wank, lines that I do not want to see crossed here. But you know? I haven't seen wank. I've seen heated discussion, strong opinions, and plenty of disagreement here and there. But I DO think we can handle discussion, as fans, if we want to. I agree, sometimes we don't -- we WANT to wank sometimes, and see above for my theories as to largely why. But it isn't always that way.
*hugs*
Reply
Indeed. My frustration is that I feel the wankery/arguing for the sake of arguing often creates such bad feeling that people then don't have the time or energy for proper discussion. when it pops along. If that makes sense.
Hugs to you! This has been interesting!
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