Oh man. When I see it spelled out like you have here -- Sam, and John, and -- I just sometimes wonder how Dean gets himself to crawl out of bed in the mornings. ::hides face:: Sam really wasn't happy to see Dean -- granted, Dean was actually pretty much breaking in at the time, and Sam wasn't out of place in being a little shocked -- but if he wouldn't even take phone calls, man, I dunno, I see why Dean chose to do it that way. ::deep sigh:: Yes, Sam kinda made up for it, but it still hurts. That's the thing. realistic, you know? I don't care that Dean evidently got past it -- we KNOW Dean just pushes things down, doesn't deal with them. God, the second season has GOT to address that.
Sam-centric is okay while Dean's physically recovering; after that, I want at least a stab at equal meaning. If it's still heavily Sam-Sam-Sam once Dean is capable again, I'm not gonna be all that happy.
And as for Dean believing the demon-why the heck wouldn't he?
The Demon wasn't telling Dean anything he didn't already know or suspect - if anything, he was tapping into Dean's insecurities as much as he was John's fucked-up psyche. And besides, we learned in both Skin and Asylum that when each of the brothers got taken over, their resentments were brought to the surface. Sure the demons twist the truths to enact the most pain, but the truths have to be there on some level first. Oddly, it's one of the few consistencies in this show.
So Dean knows what the Demon was saying was true - or, at the very least, he believes it, always has. Doesn't mean he doesn't love his father every bit as much as he always has as well. Obviously he loves the guy in spite of what Dean feels his father thinks of him. *sob*
I agree that Dean already suspects that this is true. But I wonder if hearing the demon say it, in his father's voice and having access to his father's thoughts, will give it more validity. It's like how Sam must have suspected that he was the cause of the demon's interest but still needed John to confirm his suspicions. Hearing it from their father seems to make it more real.
And I'm not sure it has to do with how much Dean loves his father. Dean has this capacity to love his family despite their faults and with no real expectations-which is why it was so easy for them to take him for granted. But I wonder if the demon's words might not make his reevaluate his place in the family (ie: the hunting, being Dad's soldier, giving up his dreams for the needs of the family) or worse, question his own self worth (since Dean seems to take things as his fault/his failure.)
Lots and lots of fun speculating! Dang, September is such a long ways away. I hate this waiting.....
I wonder if hearing the demon say it, in his father's voice and having access to his father's thoughts, will give it more validity.
Oh, I think there's no question about that. It's one thing to suspect something on a gut level, it's another to have it validated in your face. Really hard to go on ignoring that white elephant sitting in the corner from then on.
I wonder if the demon's words might not make his reevaluate his place in the family ...
This is exactly what I hope happens with Dean, because it's way past time for Dean to stop and assess the truths about his life. I just hope the producers honestly intend to explore this potential!
Hearing it from their father seems to make it more real
I agree -- this is, as you say, something Dean's known for some time, and voicing it pushed it into undeniable prominence. Dean could pretend it wasn't there before, but now that's no longer possible.
I do think that Dean's response to this will be to re-evaluate everything. Maybe not out loud -- maybe it's brooding, withdrawal for a period of time emotionally from his father and brother while he processes things. He strikes me as very much the sort to do that -- he sure isn't a "talk it out" kinda guy, likes to mull things over in his head.
But honestly, I wonder, have always wondered, just how much self-worth Dean has ever had. Dean is simply so obscured by mannerisms, this complex and detailed facade that covers so very much. Behind that facade I don't think Dean has EVER had any real sense of value except as the various roles he plays. Fascinating.
I give the writers credit for making Dean such a complicated, tragic figure. They could have taken the easy way out and made him the stereotypic tough guy with a heart of gold. But instead, there are many, many suggestions that although Dean "plays" a rogue, he is far from actually being one. I was initially suprised that young!Dean in "Somthing Wicked" seemed so, well, soft. I had imagined, based on early canon, that he be more like Michael. But now, in retrospect, I think the dichotomy between the two was deliberate. Dean's true nature is very sweet, not streetwise (not that there is anything wrong with streetwise, I loved Michael's character!) Left to his own devices, I suspect that Dean would have probably grown up into this very kind, loving person without artifice or bravado, intensely faithful to his significant other, etc. Instead, perhaps because Dean knew John wanted a tough soldier and would probably despise Dean's true nature as "weak", he developed this false persona to gain his father's respect. But still, Dean's
( ... )
So Dean knows what the Demon was saying was true - or, at the very least, he believes it, always has
This is the thing that kills me about this show: These situations are so frustrating, so difficult, and that makes them startlingly realistic. Let's face it -- ostensibly SPN isn't exactly based on realism, not with demons and vampires and all that trotting around. And yet at its heart it has some extremely painful truths. Dysfunctional family, jealousy, anger, manipulation, grief, and -- whatever term you want to use for the idea of taking someone entirely, fundamentally for granted.
Not like you don't already know this, but I still do feel sympathy for Sam's issues. And yet they pale in comparison to Dean's on a human level. Yes, I understand Sam to need time and energy to address what he learned about himself from the demon -- what it means, what he can do to fight back, and so on. But that is...somehow less vital to me, which I am trying to understand about my own approach. In a way, both Sam and Dean face excruciating
( ... )
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Oh man. When I see it spelled out like you have here -- Sam, and John, and -- I just sometimes wonder how Dean gets himself to crawl out of bed in the mornings. ::hides face:: Sam really wasn't happy to see Dean -- granted, Dean was actually pretty much breaking in at the time, and Sam wasn't out of place in being a little shocked -- but if he wouldn't even take phone calls, man, I dunno, I see why Dean chose to do it that way. ::deep sigh:: Yes, Sam kinda made up for it, but it still hurts. That's the thing. realistic, you know? I don't care that Dean evidently got past it -- we KNOW Dean just pushes things down, doesn't deal with them. God, the second season has GOT to address that.
Sam-centric is okay while Dean's physically recovering; after that, I want at least a stab at equal meaning. If it's still heavily Sam-Sam-Sam once Dean is capable again, I'm not gonna be all that happy.
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The Demon wasn't telling Dean anything he didn't already know or suspect - if anything, he was tapping into Dean's insecurities as much as he was John's fucked-up psyche. And besides, we learned in both Skin and Asylum that when each of the brothers got taken over, their resentments were brought to the surface. Sure the demons twist the truths to enact the most pain, but the truths have to be there on some level first. Oddly, it's one of the few consistencies in this show.
So Dean knows what the Demon was saying was true - or, at the very least, he believes it, always has. Doesn't mean he doesn't love his father every bit as much as he always has as well. Obviously he loves the guy in spite of what Dean feels his father thinks of him. *sob*
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And I'm not sure it has to do with how much Dean loves his father. Dean has this capacity to love his family despite their faults and with no real expectations-which is why it was so easy for them to take him for granted. But I wonder if the demon's words might not make his reevaluate his place in the family (ie: the hunting, being Dad's soldier, giving up his dreams for the needs of the family) or worse, question his own self worth (since Dean seems to take things as his fault/his failure.)
Lots and lots of fun speculating! Dang, September is such a long ways away. I hate this waiting.....
Reply
Oh, I think there's no question about that. It's one thing to suspect something on a gut level, it's another to have it validated in your face. Really hard to go on ignoring that white elephant sitting in the corner from then on.
I wonder if the demon's words might not make his reevaluate his place in the family ...
This is exactly what I hope happens with Dean, because it's way past time for Dean to stop and assess the truths about his life. I just hope the producers honestly intend to explore this potential!
Reply
I agree -- this is, as you say, something Dean's known for some time, and voicing it pushed it into undeniable prominence. Dean could pretend it wasn't there before, but now that's no longer possible.
I do think that Dean's response to this will be to re-evaluate everything. Maybe not out loud -- maybe it's brooding, withdrawal for a period of time emotionally from his father and brother while he processes things. He strikes me as very much the sort to do that -- he sure isn't a "talk it out" kinda guy, likes to mull things over in his head.
But honestly, I wonder, have always wondered, just how much self-worth Dean has ever had. Dean is simply so obscured by mannerisms, this complex and detailed facade that covers so very much. Behind that facade I don't think Dean has EVER had any real sense of value except as the various roles he plays. Fascinating.
Reply
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This is the thing that kills me about this show: These situations are so frustrating, so difficult, and that makes them startlingly realistic. Let's face it -- ostensibly SPN isn't exactly based on realism, not with demons and vampires and all that trotting around. And yet at its heart it has some extremely painful truths. Dysfunctional family, jealousy, anger, manipulation, grief, and -- whatever term you want to use for the idea of taking someone entirely, fundamentally for granted.
Not like you don't already know this, but I still do feel sympathy for Sam's issues. And yet they pale in comparison to Dean's on a human level. Yes, I understand Sam to need time and energy to address what he learned about himself from the demon -- what it means, what he can do to fight back, and so on. But that is...somehow less vital to me, which I am trying to understand about my own approach. In a way, both Sam and Dean face excruciating ( ... )
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