game of thrones 3x03 - the walk of punishment

[janie_tangerine]

(yay I'm doing good at this yes)

Under the cut: book spoilers (also for ADWD) and endless Tully fangirling. Also: if you like Talisa, don't like Jaime and don't like Theon don't bother, thanks so very much. Also: I'm discussing non consensual sexual situations related matters so thread carefully.

Comments

[the_crazy_freak]

Yay, I finally found time to read your review! :) And I have a few things to say again (mostly to agree with you).

2) Ugh... Couldn't agree more. Ros being there was just so fucking pointless. And that other scene with Tyrion giving Pod a bunch of whores (oh god, what even was that last one who was super elastic or whatever?!! I seriously went O_o ). Stop corrupting baby Pod, Tyrion, he needs to be a bumbling adorable virgin, ok?! That scene was seriously so pointless. I mean, it seems to me that it was hinted there was something shady about those girls, because they didn't accept payment, but maybe that was nothing? Either way, I'm getting sick of all the naked women too (and this is coming from a slightly bisexual person, jfc!) Last week's episode was actually refreshing in the sense that there were no boobs, but I guess it couldn't last and we're back to showing naked women again. I want some men. sigh

3) I don't really hate Mel in the books, either. Like, I see where she's coming from and stuff. But show!Mel annoys me to no end. She's just so much bitchier (she wasn't in this episode, but just overall). And omg, yes, they ARE ruining show!Stannis, it's not just you imagining things. I was cringing so hard at the part where he was all hot and bothered by her. HE'S NOT LIKE THAT IN THE BOOKS AT ALL!! I feel like he's kind of using her for his own purposes (just like she is using him for hers) and definitely not in the way the show is portraying. I mean, jfc, he doesn't want to bang her all the freaking time!! Just... no. Also, this is coming from someone who isn't the biggest Stannis fan, anyway. I think he's pretty ok in the books, but in the show, I feel like I only tolerate him for Davos' sake, I s2g! -__-;

4) Oh my god, don't mention that scene to me. Ever. UUUGHH!!! That scene has got to be the most pointless scene in existence. It seriously accomplished nothing. What was the fucking purpose of it?! >__> It was a waste of airtime, tbh. They could have shown some naked men (since they like showing naked people so much) instead and it would have been less pointless than that. I have to say I didn't really hate Talisa in the beginning. I didn't like her, but I was kind of indifferent. But now she just gets on my nerves all the damn time. ugh

5) and 7) Idk, I still didn't like Robb in that scene. While I do like the fact that he showed some strategic common sense and told his uncle off for ruining things, it actually makes him look like a bit of hypocrite. As in, he gets all mad when someone messes up, but when HE does it (by freaking marrying Talisa and breaking important alliances on the way), it's all fine. And he gets mad when people bring it up (as if his mistakes are ok, but the mistakes of other people aren't). Ugh, I hate what they've done with Robb in the show.

1/3

[the_crazy_freak]

6) Remember how I said that I didn't care about the Tyrells in the books, but the show made me love them and how I feel the same may happen with the Tullys? Well, IT'S ALREADY FREAKING HAPPENED. Omg, they're awesome! :DDD I think I need to go reread the chapters they're in. I think I'm in love with Edmure and the Blackfish is freaking amazing! :D x3
But yeah, that scene with him and Cat by the window... ;__; It legit made me teary-eyed, especially when Cat said "I'm never gonna see [Bran and Rickon] again" because it's true and it fucking hurts. D': And then the Blackfish telling her she has to believe and be strong, ughh. ;__;

8) Omg, don't talk to me about that scene!! ;__; Because while the Cat scene made me teary-eyed, the goodbye between Hot Pie and Arya actually made me cry. Particularly when they already left and then she yells "It's really good!" back at Hot Pie AND THAT MADE ME SO FUCKING SAD, like NOOOOO!!! ;___; I wanted the trio to stay together at least a little bit longer. Also, for some reason, I feel like in the book the departure happened much later and that it was both Gendry and Hot Pie that stayed at an inn/forge at the same time. Or am I remembering things wrong?
Yes to Sam and hot Pie ruling together, though! :D

9) Yeah, I don't think much was happening with Jon, lol. I think the point of that scene was just so the audience saw that Mance decided to attack the Night's Watch and sent Tormund, Jon (and some others) to climb the wall. Basically, nothing exciting yet.

10) Yeah, nothing that exciting happening with Dany yet, either, but I loved the scene where she's all like "I have dragons. I'll give you one," and both Barristan and Jorah lose their shit. xD And I kinda can't wait for what's coming, because Dany being badass with Drogon = YES PLZ

11) OMG, I AM SO HAPPY THAT THEY KEPT ALL OF THAT STUFF IN!! God, I am seriously so fucking happy with how they're handling their story, because while there are minor changes, all the important stuff is basically following the books and there's no character assassination/bodysnatching going on!! JAIME AND BRIENNE ARE PERFECT AND ANYONE'S ARGUMENT IS INVALID. I absolutely loved every scene they were in. :DD I'd say more, but it's hard to describe perfection, so yeah~

2/3

[the_crazy_freak]

12) I pretty much agree with everything you said here. =/ I don't think I've ever been so conflicted about any character/storyline ever. Like, I don't think I'd able to survive if Theon was just missing from the show for two seasons (I want to see him on my screen), but this is actually even worse because seeing him suffer like this and knowing much worse things are on the way is making me sick. As in, I do want to see it, but I don't. DDD: Like you said, though, everything that's happening to him is totally plausible (because in the books we don't know everything in detail). And yes, Ramsay pulling something like this is totally in character for him. I wonder what next episode's conversation between them will be like. =/ I mean, from the spoilers we read, we know that Theon will tell him everything that's happened in Winterfell and stuff, but we don't know in what way he's going to do that. Like, I'm afraid it's going to be emotional. As in, Theon kind of pouring his heart out (possibly along with voicing his doubts and regrets about burning the boys and/or betraying Robb?) to the only person he trusts right now. Seriously, if that conversation is a sentimental one, I'm going to fling myself out my window. That would be the worst. Because ugh, just imagine Theon opening up to the person who's going to do unspeakable things to him. I already feel like crying tears of blood when I'm just thinking about it (and I don't even know if the conversation will take that turn, jfc).
But maybe the Ramsay reveal will make the show-only audience sympathize more with Theon? Because when you think about it, the people who haven't read the books and/or spoilers have no idea Ramsay is, well, RAMSAY. They think he's this good guy, helping a tortured person escape, even saving him from getting raped, etc. And then suddenly BAM! The good guy goes "jk, I'm actually responsible for you torture and will now torture you some more just for my own sick twisted pleasure." So basically, it's not just Theon that gets fooled and betrayed, but also the audience, in a way. Maybe that will make it easier for them to kind of put themselves into Theon's shoes (regarding the betrayal at least)?

I guess that's all for now. JAIME AND BRIENNE though!! asdkjdsnflasgng!! Sorry, I had to mention them again.

3/3

[janie_tangerine]

Me too :/ I think that having him disappear would have been a stupid move because that stuff doesn't work on TV and especially for a character that 80% of the audience doesn't like, so they had to keep him in, but ffjkhgkdj I don't want to see him suffer, also because I suspect that what we've seen until now was nothing in comparison to what's in store DDDD: and from what we know it doesn't seem to me that they're going overboard - shit I doubt they *could* go overboard since just seeing the result of the torturing in the book was beyond gross, anything goes by this point. Ew. And yeah I totally share the same worries about that conversation - like, obviously Theon trusts him by now and he's like the *only* supposed friend he has at the moment not to mention that he's in some seriously bad emotional state. So he'll probably go spill everything very emotionally and Ramsay is TOTALLY going to use that against him later (.... ;__;) and considering that from what I gathered we find out that Ramsay is Ramsay next episode HE'S ALSO GOING TO HAVE TO FIND OUT THAT HE HAD BEEN TOYED WITH ALL ALONG AND UGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH NOPE. I. CAN'T. JUST. NO. ;___; (I'm also 100% positive that the finale will have Ramsay telling him about the RW and I'll pretty much kill myself at that point, but that's another thing entirely X:X)

And yeah hopefully AT LEAST THAT? Since some people still did-not-get-it maybe it could be like the last chance they have to realize that he didn't really mean to do all of that? D: and yeah that too - ugh on tumblr it's already starting with the people who are like 'omg the cute dude from Misfits saved Theon AWWW I SHIP IT' and I'm already starting to cringe, so at least it's gonna hopefully die soon? Like, if people ship it for what it is and knowing the books good for them as long as I don't ever have to see it, but when they don't know it's... just... ew. *cringes*

BUT JAIME AND BRIENNE ;)

[the_crazy_freak]

I actually think you're right and what we've seen up 'till now is nothing. :SS Because if you think about it, none of the things we read in the Reek chapters have actually happened yet (like flaying his fingers until he begs him to cut them off). DD: I think that's probably because they want to show Ramsay himself doing those things (and not his subordinates). I feel like they truly tortured Theon purely for the purpose of extracting information from him, whereas Ramsay will do it for his own pleasure (because he's going to HAVE all the info anyways, since Theon will tell him before he reveals his true self). So yeah, I'm pretty sure the TRULY gruesome stuff hasn't even started yet (and I couldn't even bear to look at the torture we already got - not sure I'm gonna be able to deal with what's coming). :S

Yes, that's exactly what I was afraid of. God, I need to brace myself for the next episode. ;__; It's going to be very emotionally unstable for me. I feel like that might actually be the very last scene in the last episode - the reveal of Ramsay. Because the audience is gonna be like "omg, no fucking way :OO" - in a total state of shock. And you know GoT loves to leave the audience in a state of shock (like they did with Jaime's hand this week).

Omg, I haven't even thought about the RW in context with Theon. Oh god... ;____; nope

Oh god, I didn't really venture into the part of tumblr that ships them yet. But, I mean, I can totally see it (for the people who only watch the show and don't read spoilers). They think he's a nice guy and he helped him, so of course some people will be like "omg, I ship it". Now that I think about it (and this painful for me to admit), if I hadn't read the books and didn't know who Ramsay was, I might be like "oh, he's sweet" too (and since I always kinda liked Theon anyway, he'd probably immediately be in my good books for helping him). All I can say is - thank god I read the books, because I wouldn't want to be one of those people who think the guy is great (and even ship him with Theon), only to find out that he's far from that (quite the opposite). ugh
But do people who have read the books really ship Theon/Ramsay though? O_o

[janie_tangerine]

On one side I doubt they'll be going as far as it went in the book - seriously, you can't ask a 27 year-old guy to pull a De Niro on everyone and starve himself until he looks like a sixty year old dude - but on the other we won't get spared any grossness I fear. D: (also because if they were willing to show the almost-rape then they'll most definitely be willing to show it if it happens with Ramsay, and since I'm the first person saying that I'm 99% sure it was a thing in the book I can't even complain. Sigh. Let's not get into the flaying part....) And yeah exactly I'm not even sure Ramsay ever gave a shit about the info in the first place anyway - he was probably just overjoyed to have someone to dump all his sadism on. Also someone who was already fucked up in the first place. Ew. And yeah I'm already this ready do be done now, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE I NEED TO SEE UUGGGHHHH.

Yeah knowing them I can bet money it's going to be the last scene. Damn, this almost makes me look forward to Jaime having to vomit the horse piss because at least that part gets better... DDD: and hahah. My personal headcanon is that Theon had the full mental breakdown when he was told about the RW so FIGURE HOW HAPPY I'LL BE IF I FIND OUT THAT D&D HAVE THE SAME HEADCANON AS I DO. ... the problem is that until now it seems like we're mostly agreeing.........

I only see what happens on the Theon tag and I have like five filters for anything that might show me Ramsay's name so I'm usually pretty covered, but when they don't mention the name because they don't know it yet and they're all like 'omg how cute' I just cringe in secondhand embarrassment. If I hadn't known before I'd probably be on it too but SINCE I KNOW I'M JUST CRINGING because if I fell for it I'd be backpedaling like crazy come next week.

Aaand uhm. Yeah. Most of them/the ones who usually properly tag it (from what I gather - I know a couple because they do an exchange fic that I do as well even if we rarely cross paths because of obvious different interests in shipping XDDD) are into it because of the dirtybadwrong so at least it's not romantic shipping aaand while I don't really get it and never will (I mean, the most dirtybadwrong thing I ship in asoiaf is Sandor/Sansa so what do I know) as long as I don't have to see it their business. But once, before I knew tumblr savior existed, I actually read someone saying that they were fascinated by the relationship and the dynamic (... okay until now) and that well obviously 'THEON WASN'T INTO IT AT THE BEGINNING BUT THEN HE REALIZES IT WAS THE KIND OF RELATIONSHIP HE NEEDED' and I think I had a moment of 'I can't list all the ways in which this is really fucking wrong' DDD: like seriously what the hell. :/

[the_crazy_freak]

I was just discussing this with a friend the other day and we pretty much agree with that. I don't think they'll make him wear a grey wig or make him lose any weight or anything (I don't even think they'll make Theon lose any of his teeth, let alone most of them). But honestly, that is one deviation from the book I'm more than fine with. It's bad enough that they'll probably show the finger chopping, etc. :SSS
I may have worded it wrong. I don't think Ramsay ever cared about the info, either. I think his subordinates/servants (the ones who were doing the torturing) were TOLD by Ramsay that they're doing it for info (and so they themselves did it for info, not necessarily for the pleasure). Ramsay, on the other hand... He definitely did it for his own enjoyment. What I meant when I said he won't be doing it for info (because Theon will have told him everything by then), I was kind of talking from the show-only audience's perspective. Like, the audience won't be able to say "he's only torturing him because he wants information". They'll have to admit that he's a sadistic psycho. As in, the audience won't have any excuses to "justify" Theon's torture (like so many people like to do, ugh >__>)

Speaking of that, I forgot to add this the last time. Sometimes I look up GoT reviews on Youtube and today I found two that justified stuff like that. One of the reviews was actually pretty decent and objective UNTIL the part where they mentioned Theon (this was for episode 2, btw). The woman basically said "Theon's torture was pretty gruesome to watch, but to be honest, he did deserve it," and the man just agreed with her and then she even added "It'll probably be horrible to watch, but at least it'll make us happy since it's Theon". And this wasn't coming just from a random fan, this was on a channel that does stuff a bit more professionally, if you know what I mean. I was beyond pissed off. >__> Not to mention that the woman then also said she was probably one of the few people that liked Talisa. They basically lost me at those two points. >__>
The other review was from a guy that only watches the show and it was about this week's episode. I was only half paying attention, so I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think he said anything like that about Theon. He did, however, say that he's glad they cut Jaime's hand off "because the guy deserved it - he killed my nigga Ned". Um... no. I facepalmed.

Nooo, why did you bring that up?! DD: I was perfectly fine not thinking about the RW in connection to Theon and now this headcanon of yours... ;___; I obviously don't have any headcanons about that but, omg, what if they DO go that way in the show?! That would kill me.

Well, I mean, I don't like to judge other people based on their ships, so let them ship what they want, I guess. As long as they only ship it within fictional realms and don't actually condone any of that stuff IRL. But when someone says that Theon "then realizes it was the kind of relationship he needed", then I'm gonna question this person's sanity tbh. Because wtf?! O_o
Btw, I also saw that pile of tweets you reblogged. It made me want to punch something. >__>

[janie_tangerine]

Nah exactly they can't have him change his freaking physical appearance until *that*. But yeah between the flaying, cutting fingers and possibly knocking off some teeth (hopefully not all)... yeaaahhriiightthatwouldbenoughthanks. I'm totally okay if they change it, really. The 'he looks like a sixty year old' is probably the thing that disgusts me most so CHANGES FTW REALLY.

And yeah ops sorry I got it wrong, yep I totally think that he played the guards too and that they all thought they were getting info but obviously the masterplan is just Ramsay's thing. And yeah I hope it goes like that for the audience but I still read some stuff on forums at times where they're like 'I hope that Ramsay captures him again because he still totally deserves it' so I suppose some people just don't give a shit as long as this poor guy is miserable? :/

... okay, if you like Talisa AND think Theon deserved it you're totally lost to me ;) and wtf ouch seriously can people just stop thinking that torturing people is justified in any context? I just . I can't even with those people X_X

also sorry how did Jaime kill Ned? Okay well he put a sword in his leg but HOW DID JAIME KILL NED that was all Joffrey/Littlefinger WTFFFF HOW. Not to mention that I always thought that Ned should have totally been less of an ass to Jaime considering that er Jaime had killed Aerys also because he saw Ned's father and his brother roasted alive in front of him, hhhmmmm. BUT OF COURSE SINCE JAIME IS A BAD PERSON LET'S ALSO SAY THAT HE KILLED NED, WTF. Of all the crap I've heard people say when I tell them that I like Jaime nothing ever was as bad as this. xD

... sorry. I swear I didn't mean it. Sorry. ;____;

Me neither - I mean, as long as you think that doing that IRL isn't cool then whatever go do your thing just don't make me see it. But IKR THAT PERSON I just - how is that the kind of relationship he needed...? I mean I could argue for hours about the fact that probably he'd want to feel like he actually belongs to *someone* if not *somewhere* but... an abusive relationship based on brainwashing where you aren't even allowed to keep your identity and you've been mutilated by the other person doesn't sound like that to me? not to mention that OPS WAIT 'I should have been with Robb' anyone? He already had it, no need to bring Ramsay into it - great, I just made myself depressed again

those tweets look like assholes central, don't they =_=

[the_crazy_freak]

Tbh, when reading the books, I just blocked that part from my mind. Like, I still imagined him as a young guy (and only with like, maybe 2 teeth missing at most). I don't think my brain was able to process the fact that a 22-year-old (is he 22? I actually don't remember) looks 60. So I rarely ever think about that part. =/

Ugh, there will always be those types of people. >__>

My thoughts exactly. I actually wanted to comment on that, but the guy disabled comments, lol. I wonder if he got shit for stuff and that's why he did it. I also remember him saying how he doesn't understand why Jaime would save Brienne from rape/death, because "he hasn't shown any redeeming qualities so far". And that him saving Brienne was OOC. Ugh, just... no fucking comment. (I mean, I guess you could argue that this guy hasn't read the books, but come on, that's no excuse)

That is exactly what Theon yearned for - he wanted to BELONG and he wanted to be ACCEPTED. I think this is why I never really hated him (like, even pre-ADWD he was in my top 10 Asoiaf characters list). Because I could actually somewhat relate to him on that level (the level of feeling like you don't belong). Imagine being taken from your home at the age of 8, by the people who killed your 2 brothers no less. You're then forced to grow up with those people and while they don't exactly treat you badly, there's always that threat that they will kill you, because hey, you're not actually their adopted son, but a fucking prisoner. And you basically don't belong anywhere anymore. You'll never TRULY be a part of this adoptive-prisoner family, but you're not quite a part of your own blood family either. And none of those people will ever FULLY accept you. You'll never be good enough for any of them. So yeah. Theon is flawed and misguided, but it's coming from a place of hurt and confusion (and the feeling of never being good enough - thus the need to "prove himself") and I don't get how people don't see that. And it's not like he never felt conflicted/guilty, unlike a lot of other characters in the books who don't get nearly as much hate as Theon does.

Also, that "I should have been with Robb at the wedding. I should have died with him," line absolutely killed me. ;______;

[janie_tangerine]

Yep. He's 22. And I read ADWD like the month before I turned 23, which...thinking that he was my age was so disturbing I couldn't even fathom how people could actively say they were happy about him getting his due. Like wtf NOPE. Never. Can't.

Also sorry but if you think that all there is to Jaime is being an ass who throws children off windows then you didn't even watch the show because they gave more than enough hints that there's more to it. And ffs haha OOC SURE. Did he hear that dialogue on the horse or what? I can't. People who can't accept that Jaime is more complicated than 'kills people fucks his sister' in my chart are just slightly better than the 'Theon deserves it' team -_-

ALSO YES TO ALL OF THAT. Apparently some people don't see the not-so-fine line between belonging and someone actually *owning* you without your consent/down to your basic functions, but... Seriously, how is Ramsay supposedly good for Theon is something that shouldn't even be a subject of discussion, let alone people actually thinking it's a thing. And tbh the fact that Theon just wanted to belong someplace and got the extrapervertedtwistednotconsensual version of it is horrifying, not good for him DDDD: (that line was the beginning of my downfall into the pit of Robb/Theon, other than.. Well, until then during Theon's chapters I mostly was like EW NO EW, at that point I just went and started sobbing, ooops. I never quite recovered from it. Just - I can't with it and everything it implies ;___; it probably says all that his relationship with Robb was probably the healthiest he ever had.... D:)

[the_crazy_freak]

Same tbh. A while ago I read some wonderful essay someone wrote on Jaime and it was exactly how I myself saw him and it was just perfect. And I don't get how people don't see him that way. Are some people just incapable of looking past the surface or?

"And tbh the fact that Theon just wanted to belong someplace and got the extrapervertedtwistednotconsensual version of it is horrifying, not good for him" <-- Ugh, exactly! That's actually the worst thing that could happen to him. I mean, it's obviously absolutely horrifying for ANYONE, but especially so for someone like Theon. :SSS
Yeah, the relationship with Robb WAS the healthiest he had. :( ;__;

[janie_tangerine]

I suppose it requires too much effort? Like, there's people that after five books are still 'BUT JAIME THREW BRAN OFF A WINDOW AND FUCKED HIS SISTER!!!1!!' and 'THEON STILL DESERVED IT!' so they obviously refuse to see past the surface or I don't even know. Like, there's more to them than that. =__=''''

Like sure thing have all that happen to him when he's already saddled with issues GO AHEAD NO PROBLEM *CRIES* (like I doubt that someone... er, more stable, if that's even the right word, would have been that thoroughly fucked up to the extent f *forgetting who they were* D: which only makes the whole thing with Jeyne even more poignant and when people say that 'but it was one thing it doesn't make up for the rest of the shit he did' I just go like 'way to miss the point you'. =_=)

When your healthiest relationship is with the son of a guy who could kill you at any moment it's proof that you should be a go for posting on FML.com I think *laughs so that she doesn't cry* ;___;

[the_crazy_freak]

I decided to check out the Theon tag (for the first time, I think; I rarely ever use tags in general) and I can finally see what you mean when you say there are some seriously annoying people on there. >__>

This doesn't have anything to do with Theon, but I wanted to mention it anyway: I saw the Stannis post you reblogged earlier and I wanted to thank you, because I think I needed to read that to kind of "restore my faith" in the character after the way he's been acting on the show. :)

[janie_tangerine]

Meh, looking at the general tag is probably an act of masochism. I keep on doing it just because in theory when going on someone's tag it shouldn't be crawling with annoying and I refuse to be driven from it because it is (if it makes sense), but the Theon one is assholes central pretty much half of the time. =_=''

WASN'T THAT META AWESOME? ;__; it was like 70% of why I'm totally fond of book!Stannis but put in better words, lol. but yeah if the shows keeps on fucking up at least we have the books? also seriously after reading that meta I just want fluff fic where Davos hugs him or something WHAT

[the_crazy_freak]

Yeah. >_> I mean, when you see posts titled "Theon Greyjoy, you piece of shit" you basically just wanna leave. -__-;

OMG, YES! :DD But seriously, compare book!Stannis to show!Stannis when it comes to this quote: One of my favorite parts of the series is when Stannis and Davos are reunited after Blackwater, and Stannis says "I missed you, ser". <-- This is what book!Stannis said/did. Show!Stannis said "I thought you were dead" and threw him in the dungeons. The difference is quite big.

[janie_tangerine]

6) YESSSS FOR BEING ON TEAM TULLY ;) welcome, we have lovely fried fish to offer ;) ;) they're amaaaziiinggg. I love everything Tully in the world ;__; and I still maintain that between Davos and the Blackfish they have 95% of the mental sanity in Westeros but other than that I just love those people so much ;__; and yess that scene he had with Cat was perfect ;____; fdjhsfkj MY TULLY FEELINGS, THEY CRUSH ME.

8) I knowwww it was ridiculously sad ;___; and yeah they're pushing things forward, in the book they didn't split up until like a good third into it? Still. I WANTED THEM TOGETHER LONGER D:

Shhh you know that Sam & Hot Pie would be the best-ticket-ever. MORE BREAD AND BOOKS FOR EVERYONE!

9) Yeah exactly, but imo they could have totally put it in some episode where Jon actually did something other than staring at the snow xDDD

10) HAHAHAH THAT WAS WHEN I DECIDED I WANTED SOMEONE WRITING JORAH/BARRISTAN TBH XDD THEY WERE HILARIOUS. <3

11) IKR OMG DGHFDKJGKDFJGHKFD THAT'S HOW THEY SHOULD DO EVERYTHING MY FEELINGS EVERYTHING JAIME AND BRIEEEENNNEEEEEE <333333333333333 my otp >>> every other otp ;)