happy easter! and I'm talking SPN! and vampire porn! and other things.

[janie_tangerine]

1 . Happy Easter everyone! :D I hope you’re all hoarding the chocolate I’m not ;) aaand happy GOT day to everyone who actually watches it today - may you all survive it

Comments

[janie_tangerine]

That episode had writing/characterization issues for sure, and Dean could have totally been done better (like I probably facepalmed at his attitude for half of it), but that was a part I actually wanted to meta about that I forgot about how they dealt with John in there which made me really like the episode as a whole (basically: I thought that it was a lot fairer regarding John and his parenting than most of S5/6/7 had, which I had gathered was an unpopular opinion when it aired and I totally forgot to actually expand on it but whatever, I'll have other occasions ;) ), but it'd probably make me go overboard xD but hey the world is nice because we're all different y/y? ;)

Yeah that. Cas needs to get over feeling like he deserved to rot forever in Purgatory (which I don't think is happening rn) and the whole shebang that went down in 8x17 is going to need further resolving so I highly doubt that it's happening this year, but I think mid/late S9 could be done. But even if they go for it in S10 I'm totally good with it - as long as they keep on giving us THIS and keeping up the good writing, I'm pretty cool with waiting as much as they think is necessary ;) *SQUEE GROUP FTW*

[aadarshinah]

exactly. providing the quality of writing keeps up, I've no problems with Dean/Cas being put off until S9/S10 - as long as it happens.

And it was the characterization that totally got me too, though I've got to say that, while I can understand Dean's defense of John, John is 75% not deserving of it. Yes, he did the best he could, but sometimes that's not good enough. I loved the premise, though, and I think another writer could have done an excellent job with it. It's the only episode this season I've had real issue with.

Though, to be fair, Cas hasn't had TIME to come to terms with Purgatory and his actions that led him there. The moment he got out, he was under Naomi's thumb. But give him a good half-season of screen time and some time around the Winchesters, who are of decidedly the opposite opinion, and he'll come round.

And, hopefully, they'll both be in the right place for a relationship before too much longer and our squee will be realized at last. And it will be an epic squee, which will be written in the annals of history as without peer.

[janie_tangerine]

Same. I mean, if they think that in order to do it in the best possible way they have to wait until S10 BUT they give us what we got in S8 for now then I'm totally willing to wait - why should they rush if they actually have good plans? I'm inclined to trust them.

I think Dean came off as too defensive and like he didn't even bother to see Henry's point, and I don't like that, but the thing is.. okay, I'll try not to write a novel ;) I think that John was a bad father and that he did the best he could which was definitely good enough and he caused a lot of damage, but I don't think he did that with the intent of being a bad father or that he didn't love Sam or Dean, which... well, the way the show had been discussing John in the last three seasons it seemed to me like they were implying that he was a bad parent *and* that he never gave a shit about either, which in light of the fact that John gave up his precious revenge (which a lot of people seem to think that he always put first) to save Dean's life is.. at least objectionable to me, not to mention a lot of other things but as stated I'd like to stay into the character limits. XD And 8x12 was like the first episode in three seasons where SOMEONE pointed out that John wasn't being a bad parent because he was a bad person, if it makes sense? I also thought that Dean at least seemed to have gone from S1 aka 'DAD CAN'T DO NO WRONG' to 'Dad did wrong/fucked us up but he didn't do that because he genuinely didn't give a shit'. On retrospective it could have done a lot better and Dean's characterization still had issues, but let's say I appreciated the effort. xD ;)

Nah I don't think he's had the necessary time either, which is 90% of the reason why I think it's too soon for any kind of romance - first he gets out of Purgatory in that mindset after that crazy stunt, then Naomi and then YAY ROMANCE? I think he needs some time with the Winchesters and some time on his own to actually come around before going into romantic relationships. (or better, if I were writing fic I wouldn't really have a problem with it, but let's be realistic XD) ;)

I LIKE THAT LAST SENTENCE. Exactly. I'm trusting them to lead us to the place of squee so that when it happens it's going to be truly epic and lasting and we're going to treasure it forever and ever <3 (and when Dean FINALLY says I love you, it's going to be a lot better than it'd have been if he said it last week - in retrospective I can see why they cut it, if he had to say it later it wouldn't have had the same impact ;) ;) )

[aadarshinah]

Exactly. As long as it happens, I'm happy with whatever timeline they choose. (Though, of course, I'd prefer sooner rather than later).

Exactly. There's a quote about Richard I of England that basically says, "He was a bad son, a bad husband, and a bad king, but a gallant and splended solider," that could very much be cut and pasted onto John Winchester. More or less. He was a good man, but a CARELESS father. That's probably the best word for it. He loved his sons, but he loved his wife so much that, when she died, something in him broke and he was never able to love - or show his love - in quite the same way ever again. The fear of losing his sons prevented him from showing them how much he loved them. And his desire for revenge... Well, you know.

But the episode had it's issues. That wasn't one of them though.

I'd prefer a strong and lasting relationship too rather than simple fanservice. Which is why I'm willing to wait. Cas needs to heal (and appear in like most of S9/the rest of S8) before it can really happen, but we're on the right road. Hopefully.

[janie_tangerine]

I'd obviously prefer sooner too, but I won't get upset or anything if they take more time. Also I kind of think that Jeremy Carver ships it like no one's business so well if the showerunner does... ;)

Oooh that quote fits to a T! And yeah careless is the word for it - also I think you're totally spot-on in that analysis - he was too worried about losing them to show them how much he actually cared D: but I also think that it makes him a lot more complicated than a lot of people make him out to be and idk I'm probably sure that seeing a canonically FAIR portrait of the guy when it had been years since I remembered it happening probably made me a lot more forgiving towards the actual wrong in that episode ;) then again when it came out a lot of people were all being like 'the John related part was OOC re both Dean and what we know od John' and I was like 'uhm actually NO re-watch late S1 please' xD .... Sorry, I totally went on a tangent here /o\

THAT. If they did fanservice they'd hook up next time they see each other but realistically Cas isn't there and... Like, the one serious relationship Dean had until now was with Lisa and I'm pretty sure that given the circumstances of how he started it in S6 at that point HE was the one who wasn't entirely ready for it, so seriously, if I can have them both being into it at the right time then I'm not in a hurry. I've read fic since S4, I can use that for shipping-related satisfaction for another year xDDD ;)

[aadarshinah]

If the showrunner ships it, you know it's near-canon.

Yay! My meta abilities are back (I've been AFK - and internet - for almost two months, so I was worried I'd lost them). But thanks. John is complicated. A retired Marine, but also "emotional" enough to be utterly broken when his wife dies. A loving father, but unable to show his love. Like Castiel, he had too much heart, nearly all of which was broken by the time we see him in S1.

And you know what they say: girls tend to chose husbands like their fathers.

EXACTLY. Fanfiction will get me by until it happens.