womenlovefest day 2, meta, ASOIAF: three things Brienne of Tarth is
aand, welcome to the follow up to yesterday's meta and to day two of my Brienne appreciation week for womenlovefest.
Spoiler warning stays the same - up to AFFC.
Three things Brienne is:
1. One of the most resilient persons in Westeros: and I love her for it. The amount of psychological abuse she remembers going through is insane; apart from no one taking her seriously enough, all her betrothals go wrong (proving her septa quoted over there) and the one who wasn’t forty years older than her basically told her in her face that she was too ugly to deserve more than a flower for him and the others all wanted her to quit swordfighting (aka the one thing she’s happy doing). Then she gets in Renly’s army (and I’d note that she’s described as being beautiful exactly two times in the books - in Jaime’s dream and when she gets Renly’s cloak - I can only imagine how happy she was then) and everyone starts treating her nicely just because there was a bet on who’d take her virginity first (and when she learns it she’s told to go home and marry - as usual). The fact that she was in love with Renly because all he did was a) being courteous to her and b) dance with her is actually frightening in that sense. (Sorta OT: which, passing by, is half of the reason why I ship Jaime/Brienne - he didn’t do anything to be nice to her or say anything but his opinion, but he still really came through for her and gave her a sword and a mission; at least he gave her actions that he meant instead of words and courtesies.)
And even with all the self-esteem blows she got and not counting all the shit that hit the fan after Renly died, she hasn’t faltered except when she thought she was useless after the Red Wedding, and then Jaime gave her the sword and she didn’t think twice about accepting his offer. In AFFC you get enough of her doubts about what she’s doing, but when told to just go home she refuses. All the crap that is pulled on her does have its effects, but they don’t kill her resolve or send her home with a handful of flies. And one thing that I love is that when she takes a blow she’ll give it back instead of just taking it. IE: when the only betrothed of hers that would agree to marry her wanted her to quit swordfighting, she remembers having to overcome her shyness to tell him she’d marry him only if he could beat her in a fight. Then she proceeded on putting him KO. She’s learned to be her own knight in shining armor and I love her for it. Even when she feels the blows, physical or not, well enough every time, and they leave signs, she’s still somehow above it. And she deserves props at least for this.
Small aside: for all the times she’s been threatened with rape, I love that the one time it actually came close to happening instead of laying back and thinking of whatever could make it easier as Jaime had suggested without fully knowing who he was talking to, she bit off Vargo Hoat’s ear. She just won’t go down.
2. A genuinely decent person: which is apparently a trait that for a lot of characters in ASOIAF seems to go hand in hand with boring. (IE: Davos is apparently the most boring POV in the entire series for a lot of people, which I don’t get either.) Point is: considering the average of ASOIAF, and considering what being a genuine decent person usually brings you in Westeros (a quick death if you’re lucky), being a genuinely decent person and keeping on being that for me feels like an achievement of major proportions. In AFFC Brienne is definitely not the same person she was in ACOK, but even if she went through things that would have killed anyone else’s resolve not only she’s still around trying to find Sansa knowing that it’s the same thing as finding a needle in a haystack , but she’s still following her morals. (And she has morals that would make Ned Stark’s eyes turn into hearts.) She still helps people when she can because it’s what a knight should do, she’s a better person to Pod than Tyrion ever was, she isn’t as horrible to Hyle as I’d have been in her place. In ASOS she gave Jaime that speech who convinced him not to let himself die when she still didn’t like him and not just because she thought she could bring him back to King’s Landing still. And after he told her about the real reason he slew Aerys she could overcome her prejudices towards him - there’s a reason that he told her and not anyone else. She probably doesn’t know how to be genuinely mean to someone if they have a redeeming feature (for her standards). And sure, she isn’t interesting or compelling or entertaining the way Tyrion or Littlefinger are, and I doubt she’d have patience for politics or scheming, but I don’t even expect her to deliver that kind of smarts.
3. Realistic: if there’s something I’ve always appreciated about Brienne, is that nothing about her is false or ever felt false. All her reactions always felt viscerally real to me, starting with her first appearance. She was described as ugly with maybe one redeeming factor, but to Catelyn (who had thought she was an unfortunate creature ten seconds before) when she smiled the second she got her cloak she was beautiful. For that reason it was a bit that felt very real to me, but then you notice that everything she does, she does genuinely. She also can’t lie for the life of her and when she’s introduced she’s nowhere near ready for all the crap that’s going to happen to her later, but there wasn’t a point when she double crossed anyone. She always means what she does or says. She meant her vows to Renly, she meant them with Catelyn (and she meant them even more after she died), she meant to bring Jaime safely to King’s Landing, she meant to find Sansa and she meant to restore Jaime’s honor, exactly as she means everything she says when she talks about her oaths and her knighthood. I kind of like how she doesn’t really share voluntarily how much she doubts and what’s going on inside her head - it’s a quiet way of dealing with crap happening at you. You can see it because before getting her POVs she’s seen through Cat and Jaime who are both fairly observant, but you don’t get the extent until you see the world through her eyes. I can’t help finding her the easiest person to relate to because for me her actions are very believable. The way I see it, a character that has all this behind them isn’t there just to serve others or to please some readers or to bore the reader because te writer is wrong in thinking that someone would give a shit about what goes on inside her head.
In conclusion to this probably too long ranting: Brienne isn’t there to serve anyone’s story and she’s so much very awesome in what’s probably an understated way, but it doesn’t make her pointless when she has her own story. I very much like her own story. I’ll be happy to wait until I’m thirty to see how it ends.
In the next meta episode, probably another way too long post on how Brienne’s POVs aren’t boring and aren’t a drag, and how she surely doesn’t deserve to die for having so many.
Spoiler warning stays the same - up to AFFC.
Three things Brienne is:
1. One of the most resilient persons in Westeros: and I love her for it. The amount of psychological abuse she remembers going through is insane; apart from no one taking her seriously enough, all her betrothals go wrong (proving her septa quoted over there) and the one who wasn’t forty years older than her basically told her in her face that she was too ugly to deserve more than a flower for him and the others all wanted her to quit swordfighting (aka the one thing she’s happy doing). Then she gets in Renly’s army (and I’d note that she’s described as being beautiful exactly two times in the books - in Jaime’s dream and when she gets Renly’s cloak - I can only imagine how happy she was then) and everyone starts treating her nicely just because there was a bet on who’d take her virginity first (and when she learns it she’s told to go home and marry - as usual). The fact that she was in love with Renly because all he did was a) being courteous to her and b) dance with her is actually frightening in that sense. (Sorta OT: which, passing by, is half of the reason why I ship Jaime/Brienne - he didn’t do anything to be nice to her or say anything but his opinion, but he still really came through for her and gave her a sword and a mission; at least he gave her actions that he meant instead of words and courtesies.)
And even with all the self-esteem blows she got and not counting all the shit that hit the fan after Renly died, she hasn’t faltered except when she thought she was useless after the Red Wedding, and then Jaime gave her the sword and she didn’t think twice about accepting his offer. In AFFC you get enough of her doubts about what she’s doing, but when told to just go home she refuses. All the crap that is pulled on her does have its effects, but they don’t kill her resolve or send her home with a handful of flies. And one thing that I love is that when she takes a blow she’ll give it back instead of just taking it. IE: when the only betrothed of hers that would agree to marry her wanted her to quit swordfighting, she remembers having to overcome her shyness to tell him she’d marry him only if he could beat her in a fight. Then she proceeded on putting him KO. She’s learned to be her own knight in shining armor and I love her for it. Even when she feels the blows, physical or not, well enough every time, and they leave signs, she’s still somehow above it. And she deserves props at least for this.
Small aside: for all the times she’s been threatened with rape, I love that the one time it actually came close to happening instead of laying back and thinking of whatever could make it easier as Jaime had suggested without fully knowing who he was talking to, she bit off Vargo Hoat’s ear. She just won’t go down.
2. A genuinely decent person: which is apparently a trait that for a lot of characters in ASOIAF seems to go hand in hand with boring. (IE: Davos is apparently the most boring POV in the entire series for a lot of people, which I don’t get either.) Point is: considering the average of ASOIAF, and considering what being a genuine decent person usually brings you in Westeros (a quick death if you’re lucky), being a genuinely decent person and keeping on being that for me feels like an achievement of major proportions. In AFFC Brienne is definitely not the same person she was in ACOK, but even if she went through things that would have killed anyone else’s resolve not only she’s still around trying to find Sansa knowing that it’s the same thing as finding a needle in a haystack , but she’s still following her morals. (And she has morals that would make Ned Stark’s eyes turn into hearts.) She still helps people when she can because it’s what a knight should do, she’s a better person to Pod than Tyrion ever was, she isn’t as horrible to Hyle as I’d have been in her place. In ASOS she gave Jaime that speech who convinced him not to let himself die when she still didn’t like him and not just because she thought she could bring him back to King’s Landing still. And after he told her about the real reason he slew Aerys she could overcome her prejudices towards him - there’s a reason that he told her and not anyone else. She probably doesn’t know how to be genuinely mean to someone if they have a redeeming feature (for her standards). And sure, she isn’t interesting or compelling or entertaining the way Tyrion or Littlefinger are, and I doubt she’d have patience for politics or scheming, but I don’t even expect her to deliver that kind of smarts.
3. Realistic: if there’s something I’ve always appreciated about Brienne, is that nothing about her is false or ever felt false. All her reactions always felt viscerally real to me, starting with her first appearance. She was described as ugly with maybe one redeeming factor, but to Catelyn (who had thought she was an unfortunate creature ten seconds before) when she smiled the second she got her cloak she was beautiful. For that reason it was a bit that felt very real to me, but then you notice that everything she does, she does genuinely. She also can’t lie for the life of her and when she’s introduced she’s nowhere near ready for all the crap that’s going to happen to her later, but there wasn’t a point when she double crossed anyone. She always means what she does or says. She meant her vows to Renly, she meant them with Catelyn (and she meant them even more after she died), she meant to bring Jaime safely to King’s Landing, she meant to find Sansa and she meant to restore Jaime’s honor, exactly as she means everything she says when she talks about her oaths and her knighthood. I kind of like how she doesn’t really share voluntarily how much she doubts and what’s going on inside her head - it’s a quiet way of dealing with crap happening at you. You can see it because before getting her POVs she’s seen through Cat and Jaime who are both fairly observant, but you don’t get the extent until you see the world through her eyes. I can’t help finding her the easiest person to relate to because for me her actions are very believable. The way I see it, a character that has all this behind them isn’t there just to serve others or to please some readers or to bore the reader because te writer is wrong in thinking that someone would give a shit about what goes on inside her head.
In conclusion to this probably too long ranting: Brienne isn’t there to serve anyone’s story and she’s so much very awesome in what’s probably an understated way, but it doesn’t make her pointless when she has her own story. I very much like her own story. I’ll be happy to wait until I’m thirty to see how it ends.
In the next meta episode, probably another way too long post on how Brienne’s POVs aren’t boring and aren’t a drag, and how she surely doesn’t deserve to die for having so many.