(Untitled)

[jamned]

Not too long after I went to China, I had a discussion with my then-roommate about soldiers. I said I couldn't abide by people who volunteered their services for killing. Government approved murder is still murder, I said.

Recently he sent an LA Times article to me, saying that this columnist makes some of the same points that I did. He's a lot

Comments

[rosalindlancast]

"All I'm asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return."

To me, that's supporting the troops.

I don't see anything to "support" on their activities in Iraq, and I don't support gov trained killers, I don't support the whole military system although I think it's necessary.

=/ I still consider supporting treating soldiers well is a form of supporting the troops though. I don't see how "support the troops" is automatically tied in with supporting the war or supporting a parade for when they come back.

So, there, I'm 100% against the war and against US Soldiers nosing into other countries' businesses, but I still support our troops and hope they all come back alive and never leave US for war again.

[jamned]

I disagree that providing "hospitals, pensions, .. and a safe, immediate return" constitutes as supporting our troops. It's not spitting on them, certainly, but it's no more than simply holding the government to their end of the bargain--the contract that the individual and the US Government agree upon when the soldier enters the armed forces.

I agree that a military system is necessary, but not this one. We don't need to have troops posted in South Korea, Iraq, Afghanastan, Japan, Germany, Italy, etc.

The phrase "support the troops" arose only after our troops were deployed in Iraq. To me, it's implicitly tied with supporting this war: it says "if you can't support the war, support the troops--be patriotic." To me it implies one should be silent about the war since this phrase can be used as rhetoric against someone who opposes the war.

[arichi]

I agree that we don't need troops stationed overseas. You won't hear an argument from me on that, but:

The phrase "support the troops" arose only after our troops were deployed in Iraq.

This was around in 1990 before US troops entered Iraq the first time.

[rosalindlancast]

I don't agree with any of america's wars overseas, and I never will.

I am also never patriotic towards any country, and I'm proud of it.

However, I still say we should support the troops simply because they're individuals, human beings with families. Granted they made a bad decision when they signed up for the armed forces, but a little bit of moral support can't kill.

Holding the government to their end of the bargain is a form of supporting the troops. Unfortunately, even in America soldiers can't hold the government to their end of the bargain themselves. It's up to the civilians to watch the DOD employee's back for them, or the government will happily take away their pension, medical insurance, family care, or whatever there is left to take.

[quirkyfemme]

I have to go against this guy because if zombies invaded the country, I would want our troops behind us slaughtering them.

[jamned]

When has the United States of America been invaded? The British came and tried to quell a civil war. Our country was formed (arguably) after that. There is absolutely no need for our country to have the largest military spending _in the world_.

[arichi]

Like rosalindlancast says, he seems to be supporting the troops.

I have mixed feelings on the war and how the army should be used. But I do agree that murder is murder, whether it's done by a criminal, a doctor, or a soldier.

[jamned]

I've been told in China and Germany, there is mandatory military service, but this translates to community service in one of two ways: In Germany, individuals may opt to replace their required military service with community service. Volunteering at a retirement home, for example.

In China, the military is frequently performing public works, like bridge/highway building.

[rosalindlancast]

remember, army corps of engineer does most of the large scale engineering jobs home front.

The army does help US build public works. They're just not as often celebrated. This isn't China. US doesn't need to celebrate their military forces to the civilians to make civilians hate the military less.

China only reminds their civilians of the good deeds the military's doing, in hope that the civilians will forget all the people the military secretly killed/kidnapped/drugged.

...well, it seems America's heading that way too. ;D Look at our patriot act!!

[jamned]

From the newspaper articles I've read--it doesn't seem like the Chinese military is secretly killing or kidnapping people, at least not to the scale that it draws international attention. The Chinese police of various cities and provinces *do* draw this kind of attention, so I figure it could go either of two ways:
-the military does it also
-the police are the ones to handle (that kind of) dirty work

The students I talked to at Beida weren't (vocally) against the military. I suspect it might have to do with the mandatory military training?

[rosalindlancast]

I have anti war in Iraq friends. ;D How awesome.

[jamned]

ha! guilty as charged =D