some ideas

[jamesxpatience]

Well, I've been reading a-lot of stuff tonight. I read a little in "Hegemony or Survival" again, I checked out this site, and was pleasantly surprised. I didn't know that such a creature existed. I strongly urge any of you who read my journal to check it out, for relief's sake. I also watched a little bit of the pep rally they call the

Comments

rant rant rant

[pushyouaround]

ok. i agree with your statement that educators and health care providers should be paid roughly about the same amount. it is no secret that doctors get paid insanely for their trade where educators get paid shit unless they teach college...which is not always an option b/c some teachers have families and it takes a long time to get an MA. i also think that educators should have to go to school a hell of a lot longer that just an associates degree and a teaching certificate. i don't care how smart they are. when i was in 10th grade i was being taught by a 21 year old fresh out of tcc. they can not learn all they need to learn in 3 years of college. i'm sorry. also in response to girldelirium...educators in no way work only 8 hours a day 40 hours a week...sure its all they get paid for...but in reality they work from 6am until night...and more if they teach harder classes and are better teachers. lets appreciate the thought process that goes into every one of our papers...having them graded on time. the making of tests, of those interesting philosophical discussions that take time to prepare. 'pcps' get paid for everything...and often too much...but educators are not only educators but volunteers. they even save lives in their own little way too. :)

next. i think that in order to help pay for the increase in educators pay we could definately dabble into the insurance companies. where the hell is the government in that? i find that insurance companies and hmo's are probably the most ruthless greediest sons of bitches in america. worse than enron and haliburtan. b/c they kill people everyday and have been doing so for years...and yet [unless your green] nobody takes any action against them.

as for all your figures...its too early and i don't feel like challenging them. at the current moment they look fine.

i don't mind capitalism...but when it's all fascism...fuck that.

Re: rant rant rant

[girldelirium]

i agree that educators spend time grading papers and yadda yadda yadda, but does that really compare to hours and hours of shuffling through the ER or in 16 hour surgeries where you're on your feet constantly dealing with life or death situations?
come on now- get real.

i never said that educators shouldn't be paid more, i just don't think they should be paid as much as PCPs. and to correct you, PCPs don't get paid for "everything". my girlfriend is in the health care profession and she puts a lot of time and hard work into shit that she doesn't get paid to do. i know the same goes with educators, but i don't think that spending an extra few hours on your couch at home grading papers is in anyway comparable to the things that good health care providers go out of their way to do.

you also have to factor in education and experience, training and ability. that is why a professor with a MA make a hell of a lot more money than someone whos got an AA and a certificate. for example, in 1999 the average professor with a MA at Yale University made an average of 113,000 a year after taxes were as a doctor of internal medicine made 150,000 a year, roughly.

you're totally being biased about something you're not even weighing facts on. and thats no way to be political about any issue.

Re: rant rant rant

[silentscavenger]

WOw! now this is the kind of healthy discussion our country needs. Although . . . (insert two-cents to continue)

The matter of whether which profession deserves/does more is irrelevant. I think J was making the point that with an economy based on the 15% difference of equality, whether you are kicking ass as a health care worker (so long as thats what you WANT to do) or if you are in the trenches of Americas failing commonplace educational system (once again so long as thats what you WANT to do.) it matters not what you do because everyone would be getting paid a similar amount, or at least on a relative scale between the % depending of "pay grade" or to further borrow from military expression "time in service". Hence the ability for people to then be less motivated by money and choose professions based on what they are passionate about, and not what will yield more financial gain. I agree with him there. If people worked hard simply for the fact of appreciating and enjoying what they do, then the level of productivity would increase vs. the person who works simply for money. People like that, in my opinion, typically hold grudges against whatever it is they are doing, usually because they don't have any reward except for that of the fleeting comfort of cash.

I could be wrong, but thats what I took from it.

to further James' idea, I could imagine the adoption of the Military standard, or a hybrid thereof, that would allow all businesses or professions a relative, standardized way to incorporate a system of "Pay Grade" that would reward time served and independently gained knowledge of the field one is in. Don't get me wrong, the military is fucked up for PLENTY of reasons, I know first hand, but at the very least I could always understand why at times I would see a 38 year old man with 20 years in service who was only three pay grades or so higher than me. It was because he was unmotivated or perhaps didn't take a passion in what he was doing. Now take that individual, give him the last 20 years of his service in a field that he actually liked working in, or the same field altogether, but without the suffocating structure of military lifestyle, keep that standardization of pay, and the guy could be earning the equivalent of a general and maintain a healthy contribution the the economy which would then feed the pay system to begin with.

Of course, all this is dependant on our corporations ability to keep jobs within the economy of our system and not "sell" them overseas to the lowest bidder. We would also require the advent of CEOs, both corporate and private, to share the "bottom-line" with their employees as a foundation to the structure. Unfortunately though, these are the same people who are mostly motivated by money, but make so much they don't have to sense it's "fleeting comfort" as the rest of us do.

as far as the discussion of bias between the health care workers and teachers, well, they are both equally important in my eyes, no matter how much "work" one does compared over the other.

I will say, however, you never see a person going to school to become a teacher in order to make a ton of money. But how many times have you been to the doctors office to see several Mercedes Benz' lined up in the employee lot?

All in all, economic values, I believe, will only change when the positions of power are passed to souls humble enough to truly share the responsibility AND rewards inherit them. Until then, the adventure for money that so many undertake will consume the "soul" of said people as well as the common economy with it.