another thing...

[jambosa]

it bothers me when women are put on a pedastil....we are human, therefor we are equal..i don't like hearing "we need to end the degradation....especially toward women"...especially not coming from the mouth of a man, It's patronizing and degrading within itself, it makes women seem like we can not uplift ourselves, like it is the responsibility of

Comments

[jennifwr]

I agree with you about 99%, though I feel that women shouldn't limit men's involvement within equality. if a man is standing up for a woman because he believes he is supposed to as a man, or she cannot do so for herself, or because he has been conditioned by the common rhetoric of sort-of "schoolyard feminism" like being told when you are 6 to let your sister play baseball with you and your friends, which has carried over into the adult life of a man, then that in and of itself, is bullshit.

that being said, I think that feminism is not very inviting towards men, I think that many often feel as though they have no place agreeing and even helping make valuable steps in the right direction by communicating to other men and women that they have around them. I also believe that in situations of abuse that men who see that abuse and do not tolerate it from their male friends, as well as offer a safe place to go, or a person to call if there was a physical confrontation, should be encouraged and welcomed.

I'm becoming more and more radical in my views about the inclusion of men into feminism after listening to Jackson Katz. if you have not ever herd or read anything by him I strongly suggest you do, woman to woman, he is an amazing human being.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, as I said before, I'm mostly on the same page with you given the circumstances of what I would say most men who intervene "on behalf" of women do, and why the do it. I don't ever think a man should speak FOR a woman. I think that men can and should stand next to women in solidarity against inequality and sexism. This is why i am also infuriated when men are stereotyped regularly by the media, or maxim magazine, or taught that they need to adhere to a certain image type. i think that "maleness" as a whole needs to be examined throughly and critiqued strongly as I believe that there are thousands of inherent things in the way men both carry themselves physically, assert their masculinity, and see women.

you and i don't agree on a few stems of our beliefs about feminism, but I think that is what makes our conversations vivid and progressive. I like that people are constantly deciding on what they believe and saying so without fear of repercussions. fucking right on Marie!