Stages of Grace

[izhilzha]

Thanks to whitemartyr, to her man Craig, and to one of my pastors for the thoughts which take form beneath the cut. This is something I've been struggling to frame for a while, and what better way to begin the season of Lent?

Comments

[feliciakw]

I guess I'm a little confused on what you mean by "rules." Are you talking about God's rules, or man's rules? Because I'm thinking of Romans 6:15.

I grew up in a church that had both, and there was a distinction between them. Rules based on scripture were defined as such (and I don't recall feeling condemned by that). "Rules" (more like traditions or customs) of the congregation were/are changeable. Oft times people forgot there is a difference between God's rules and man's traditions, and that's something that gets addressed fairly frequently in my experience.

where you can utterly trust yourself

This brings me in mind of Proverbs 3:5-6. I don't think we ever reach a point where we can trust ourselves completely. We ditch the self-conscious fear and spill out our hearts because of our trust in God. Yes, I think we can get to a point where we have confidence in our decisions; that comes with a confidence in our relationship with God.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

I have some thoughts, but I can't really formulate them right now, nor am I completely comfortable discussing them in a journal. Neither do I want to press a point that is counterproductive for you and your spiritual growth. We are on different levels of development and experience, and I'm unsure that my thoughts will be of benefit to you.

This is a lovely entry and gives much to cogitate on.

[izhilzha]

Very often, it seems to me, what people call "God's rules" are only "man's rules" labeled with authority. For instance, what about women wearing head coverings when they pray? Does your church think of that as a rule of men or of God, since it's in the Bible as a practice the church encouraged?

I'm not trying to be provocative for the sake of it, here; I'm just curious as to your experience of discerning that difference. (It will be different from mine, I am sure, but that means it's valuable.)

My beef is mostly with how people use rules (theirs or God's) to insist that we all be clones of each other in some way, rather than allowing the great differences that God creates as he opens each of us up to receive His love and to love others. Putting each other in a box can be just as damaging as putting God in our boxes, no matter how good the intention.

I don't think we ever reach a point where we can trust ourselves completely. We ditch the self-conscious fear and spill out our hearts because of our trust in God.

To try and clarify:

Here's what I am NOT saying: I am not saying that we can ever be certain that everything we do will be perfect and excellent and never cause harm. We are finite human beings, whose knowledge is limited and whose hearts are still being healed and made whole. So in that sense, no, we cannot completely trust ourselves.

Here's what I AM saying: It's not just that we can trust in God. It is not just that we reach a point of comfort in our decision-making because we trust that we have a good relationship with Him. It's far deeper than that. When God is pouring His spirit into us, it actually transforms us. We are not simply His puppets, we are changed into His substance, from glory to glory. I can trust that what is in my heart and mind is good and worthy and righteous, because He has been at work in me and is at work in me.

I trust myself (am learning to trust myself), because I was created and am continually being re-created by Him, as I partner with and embrace Him.

I trust Him, too, to take care of the consequences when I overstep my finite human bounds.

[feliciakw]

I almost deleted my original comment, realizing that we're coming from two totally different directions, and feeling that this most probably was not a response you wanted.

Re: head coverings . . . Head coverings specifically were/are a cultural practice. For a woman to be seen without a head covering would be like a woman today wearing a sexy little black cocktail number, with a slit up to there and the neck cut down to there, to church. Or wearing a bikini to church. Respectful? Worshipful? No.

Yes, the thing about head coverings is in the Bible. Does it apply to us in the specific practice of head coverings? I don't believe so. Does the admonition to be respectful and worshipful apply to us? Yes, very much.

I guess it then becomes a question of one's focus on the passage: is it on the practice of head coverings, or is it on the respectful worship of God? Is respectful worship one of man's rules, or one of God's rules?

However, if a woman deems it necessary to wear some sort of head covering to worship, I'm not going to call her out on it. It's her choice, and she has her reasons.

I find it interesting that a lot of our points of divergence have to do with things that Paul wrote. I'm not sure what to make of that.

I can't comment on the rest right now.

[izhilzha]

I find it interesting that a lot of our points of divergence have to do with things that Paul wrote. I'm not sure what to make of that.

It occurs to me that this may be partly because I am fascinated by Paul's theology. He's a clear thinker, a strong speaker (using very strong language at times), and he comes out of a culture of zeal for perfection by the Law, which speaks to me powerfully because of my own experience growing up in the church and then being called to minister to those outside it (if you will, "the Gentiles"). Galatians I just keep reading over and over (and Romans, too)--it's a startling book, and I don't know who I haven't seen it taught more often in more churches.

Anyway. Not sure where I was going with that, except that I think your observation is interesting.

[feliciakw]

I find Paul to be very direct and plain and no-non-sense in his teachings, and when I took an in-depth study of Paul-the-person, I realized that he is often extremely misunderstood in a lot of corners. He was a very passionate person, both before and after his conversion. He's often the person I think of when I think of how God made each of our personalities and temperaments, and it'a a matter of how and where we choose to focus that.

I meant to tell you: You give me things to think about and ponder and cogitate on. That's a good thing.