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[iyun_sobold]

You know one of these days I'll write an essay that isn't about my character's thoughts on romance.

Today's not that day. There are some quasi-spoilers (?) in here, but Furuba's been over for a while, so just read at your own risk.

Comments

[errant_swallow]

First off, no need to apologize for Shigure. He's an asshole and it's what he does! ♥ It has kind of put Kakeru into a strange place because a) he's been reminded of Komaki a bit more forcibly and b) the one adult he thought was really COOL and FUN has kind of turned out to more or less like his dad back home, trying to tell him what to do, but that's another thing.

I guess. Mmm. I dunno. I don't see Kakeru's growth initially as being quite so "forcing himself to grow up." It's more he's been told what to do all the time by his parents so he's finally just fed up with it and wants to do what he wants to do. Which just strikes me as kind of selfish. Not necessarily a bad kind of selfish, but selfish nonetheless.

And mm. I do agree that it's a disservice to canon to disregard it when canon says "character A love character B" but I've encountered some pretty bad instances of characters who seem to hate one another but who everyone else says "Oh they're having a lover's quarrel." And characters who don't seem to have the emotional maturity to say "I love you" saying "I love you." to someone else. I guess. It's not that I don't think they mean it, I just question how genuine/valid the emotion is. Like, taken out of shoujo-world, how long would this character remain "in love"? Because . . . camp isn't shoujo-world, situations aren't the same here as they are in canon, so I kind of feel like I have to do this.

And a lot of what you've been saying had made me rethink stuff and it's really helping sort of sort it out, which I really appreciate. So I guess now it's sort of more of a . . . Kakeru probably says "I love you" in his head, but is starting to question what that means, if it's selfish, etc. To put it cheesily, he's asking himself "What is love? Baby don't hurt me~" Because . . . his idea of love is protecting a person and trying to make them happy more than anything else. And it does lead him to do inconsiderate things. And I mean, Shigure is someone he (used to) really respect and trust, so when someone like that says he's hurting the person he "loves" by being in "love" with them it puts him in a whole sort of crisis of "is that right?"

. . . I feel like I'm making no sense again. Wh-which I apologize for.

[but_a_wolf]

About Shigure's motivations, thoughts, whatever, if you ever have any questions I'll gladly explain where he's coming from as best as I can.

Now, on Kakeru's growth we again fall into character interpretation, and that's up to you. I mean, I've loved the way you've portrayed Kakeru so far, so I'm sure you'll sort out his thoughts and motivations beautifully.

And on the meaning it and the removing from the shoujo-world. Removing the character from the world doesn't change the character nor his motivations. If the character says "I love you" in their world and meant it, he will also mean it outside their world. I think that being in camp shouldn't make Kakeru's canon feelings any less valid. I mean, if I ever tried to say that Akito is no longer Shigure's most important person for whatever reason, I'd be slapped across the cyberspace and rightfully so, because canon told me Akito is Shigure's most important person, and that everything he's ever done is for her. It is obviously not the same with Kakeru, but you still have canon to base yourself on.

I'M HELPING I'M HELPING. I love ranting about Furuba and discussing characters, it makes me happy. And you're still making sense o/

[oh_im_god]

I did actually want to ask a little bit about why he feels he doesn't owe Kakeru anything . . . or what it was he said in their thread. Just because for Kakeru it was sort of jarring to have someone he called his camp daddy sort of . . . discard him like that. Like he doesn't understand how Shigure went from the conversation they had way back where Shigure made it seem like dating Yuki was his choice to now kind of throwing it in his face that dating him is wrong no matter what. I guess.

A-and I thank you for the vote of confidence, really. This whole situation has kind of put me at a place where I'm not certain about my characterization for the first time ever with Kakeru s-so I. Appreciate it. ;o;

And on the shoujo thing y-yeah I wasn't. Being quite as clear on that as well probably. What I mean is that I'm sure. Kakeru thinks it's valid. At least he did until it came into question and it's just . . . the fact that camp is not shoujo world means it does come into question. So I kind of have to logic through why it's valid and whenever I try to logic through why it's valid I never like to use the genre of a series as an excuse. Like, I don't like to say "Well, this character is from a shoujo manga, so when they say 'I love you,' they definitely mean it." I like to think that shoujo and shounen and whatever series have characters that are equally capable of lying to themselves, of doing things for immature reasons, etc.

So. Kakeru says I love you and means it. It's just how he means it is coming under fire and what he means by it will probably be changing because of it. Like he's contemplating why Komaki and Yuki are important people to him, what differentiates them, and whether or not what he does for them/feels for them is being classified in the right way.

[but_a_wolf]

Alright, Shigure's noticed Yuki's tendency to stick close to Kakeru and meeting the people Kakeru knows. This wasn't the case however many months ago, also, Akito was in camp. Which made Yuki need support much more. Because well. Akito. But now Akito's been gone for a while and Yuki is, from Shigure's point of view, still hiding behind Kakeru. It bothers him to not see Yuki growing up, because camp is the perfect environment for him to do it. So, as far as he's concerned, Kakeru is pulling Yuki back. As for the "I don't owe you anything" Shigure doesn't like to be indebted, just as he doesn't like people to be indebted to him (not even Ayame or Hatori) as far as he's concerned he doesn't owe anything to neither Kakeru nor Yuki, just as they don't owe anything to him. This doesn't stop him from caring, getting involved or from pulling "rank" on Yuki, so to speak, if he feels like it. One of the advantages of being the adult.

BELIEVE IN ME WHO BELIEVES IN YOU

Feelings do come into question in shoujo. Hatori questions Shigure, Yuki questions himself about Tohru, about what kind of love he feels for her. And in camp shoujo characters question each other, Hatori and Shigure fought about it all the time when Akito was still in camp. I probably didn't explain myself right, it's not because the character is from shoujo, it's because being from shoujo tends to give characters the characteristic of being honest when it comes to love. I'm not saying it can't be immature, because it can be. And it can be twisted (see again Shigure/Akito) but it's still love, and it's still real for the character. I can't think of a single character in Furuba who says "I love you" without knowing they mean it.