those girls that smile kindly then rip your life to pieces

[ivy_chan]

Basically, participants would each pick one or several of their favorite series or one-shots (not necessarily fandoms) and find at least one example of undeniable, indefensible sexism. Preferably, a work that gets your hackles raised whenever someone badmouths it and ESPECIALLY if you would otherwise consider the gender dynamics to be perfect. Okay

Comments

[whiteadelphi]

I hadn't actually thought of it that way, and I'd concur that's a valid viewpoint. But for what it's worth... it could just have been the translation I read differed to yours, but I understood it that the main reason Tamaki et al got so angry with Haruhi for the beach fight was not because she had defended the two girls, but rather that when she was clearly in over her head she never once tried to call for help (the point made was that she had friends close enough that would hear her if she'd tried this.)

The subtitles for the anime were a bit confused on this, because I did originally think, "Whut? Haruhi's in trouble for daring to defend girls because she's a girl and weak huh what now?" ...but the manga translation for me had Haruhi jump to that conclusion but later had it revealed that it was her refusal to ask for help when needed that got them upset with her. (Which is why they did the whole lightning scene to show that Haruhi had a history of not asking for help, and the resolution to that was pretty much ...guh, yeah I

[ivy_chan]

In the anime, which is what this rant is based on, a lot of their phrasing was gender-based, which leads one to the conclusion that it is because she was female. (Especially Tamaki's fit at her and Kyouya's attempt to rape.) Hani said that she should have called out for help, but continued to feel entitled to an apology from her. Which sounds an awful lot like victim blaming, in my opinion, because WTF? You didn't call out for help and now you were attacked, apologize to us?

And the Kyouya scene was so many levels of fail.

[whiteadelphi]

Yup, that's fair enough - I wasn't sure if you were entirely anime-based or not. If we're talking anime only, I totally agree. =D Especially as I think it was heavily implied that as she was a girl, she was therefore clearly weak and in need of rescuing from the get go. (I think. It's been a while since I've seen it.)

[ivy_chan]

I actually haven't read the manga scene that was based on for a while, either. I'll check the book when I make it to the book store either today or tomorrow. (Or maybe just the scanlation. I can't tell which is more accurate to the original version, though.) But yes, there was the heavy implication that girls are inherently weak and in need of rescuing.

It's a running theme through the anime as well, with the Ouran Club being set up to serve women, the fact that the girls' problems all revolve around some guy, and the way they set Haruhi up to be damsel in distress in the beach and Kaoru's date episode. And the end, when she's trying to get him on the carriage and ends up falling. Apparently Haruhi can't be awesome for two minutes without getting into an accident that Tamaki needs to rescue her from.

[redbrunja]

WOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDD.

You know, I hated the beach episode because Kyouya is my favorite character yet rape is one of my 'do not pass go' areas and it seemed SO out of character to me that he would threaten her like that. (And honestly, I really, really, really wish that writers would stop thinking that my favorite characters are rapists. This happened before with Spike and just no. No. Way to ruin a good character.)

In doing so, I missed the unplumbed depths of sexism which I should rightfully be loathing.

[ivy_chan]

Yes, that whole scene just seemed humongously out of character for both of them. Kyouya threatening rape? Haruhi somehow finding this okay, and even slightly admirable? BAH. Kyouya is my favorite male character from Ouran as well, and that scene was just...AUGH. I am SO BETRAYED. It's just one of those things I can't explain to rationalize, justify, or sympathize with.

What really annoys me? In the fandom, that moment is played as Kyouya and Haruhi's Big Sexy Scene.

[redbrunja]

What really annoys me? In the fandom, that moment is played as Kyouya and Haruhi's Big Sexy Scene.

I know, which is just yuck. Especially when you have the cutesy, cutesy episode with them in the supermarket.

[ivy_chan]

Awww, yes. With Kyouya being all stoic and 'I'm a calculating bastard, and you'd better believe it! Calculating bastard without an ounce of compassion!' and Haruhi going: 'You're just a big softie. Admit it.'

They're often on the same wavelength as well, with the rest of the club going into spontaneous explosions of crazy, and Haruhi turning to Kyouya as the sole other voice of sanity. (Someone mentioned that they were like the last survivors of the WTFapocalypse.)

[lvsinsanity]

Yea, I wasn`t too happy with that episode either. Nice to see it addressed fully here.

[ivy_chan]

I think it's ten times worse when a series you've grown to love and trust does a storytelling backstab like that. You just aren't expecting the sexism punch to the face!

[lvsinsanity]

Totally agree, and I remember watching that episode, and getting really upset with the whole thing, wondering what the hell was going through Tamaki`s head when he acted like that to Haruhi after she defended those girls.

And when Kyouya did that, all for a fucking BET, I damn near lost it.

Rape isn`t something to be toyed with, let alone to win some fucking bet.

And her response to it made me start foaming at the mouth. Almost stopped watching the whole series right then and there I was so pissed off.

[ivy_chan]

Oh, god, he did it for the bet? I forgot that! That's ten thousand times worse! GFJHK.

I think I would have like the episode if Haruhi had acted realistically to the assault and was upset with him afterwards. And the issue was dealt with respectfully and with Kyouya realizing what a dick move that was.

I loved this show but

[tigerpetals]

Yes to everything that bothered me about this show. Especially that scene. There was one fanfic that actually seemed like it was going to address it, but then it went off-course and weird and nto in a good way

[ivy_chan]

I so loved all your angry feminist responses! I agree with them all, and feminist critique on series, even ones I love, is always welcome. Completely agreed on the one sexist trope they kept for Haruhi, which sucks because the guys are absolute boors to her multiple times and exert their class and male privilege all over the place to an obnoxious extent. I spend a lot of time while reading shojo manga hoping for the female lead to put the guys in their place, but alas. It rarely happens.

Also, I would love to write a Haruhi fic about her and the sexism/classism she gets from the guys. I wrote a small piece of one on another computer, but it died and I lost inspiration. T_T Might try again, though.