But You Know It's Not Allowed: A Case for Imagine as a Lennon/McCartney Song

Dec 07, 2016 11:48

When Paul McCartney decided to include secret messages to John Lennon on Ram ("you took your lucky break and broke it in two" being the type of message he admits to, "I find my love awake and waiting to be / what can be done for you, she's waiting for me" the type he doesn't), he must have known how John would react. This was after Lennon Remembers ( Read more... )

beatles, paul mccartney, john lennon

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Management Issues I selenak December 9 2016, 10:25:01 UTC

Lots to unpack. In general, re: Paul making Ram in its current form rather than with "Dear Friend" as a placatory gesture, despite knowing something like "How do you sleep?" must be coming - I'm going with "he was too angry not to at this point". Lennon Remembers cut too deep not to be. BTW, lest we forget, he wasn't the only one. Derek Taylor has talked about how deeply what John said about him and the other employees hurt - which John scoffed at in later interviews -, and George Martin seems to have been the only one doing the emotionally healthy thing (instead of the indirect messages thing) and actually saying point blank to John, when he met him again, that John had hurt him, at which point John pulled his usual "that was just me being me, you had to know it didn't mean anything" defense. (Which, head, desk.) Anyway, nobody has accused Paul of being a turn the other cheek type, temper wise. And he was past the depression and "I suck" part of post-Beatledom by 1971, and apparantly wildly going back and forth between "fuck you ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II selenak December 9 2016, 10:25:28 UTC
From today's perspective, it seems glaringly obvious that there was no way not just John but Ringo and George would have accepted Paul's in-laws as managers. However, I really think a lot of that estimation is hindsight. Ringo himself said that if "Lee Eastman had been Lee Northman", he'd sided with Paul. It was by no means a foregone conclusion in his case, it wasn't in John's, see above, and I don't think Paul was aware of the amount of George's resentment of his bossiness in 1969 (for evidence, see not just hindsight, but Let It Be conversations about George during his temporary walkout). And the core of the matter was that they really, direly, and quickly needed both someone capable of being a fixer due to the Apple mess, and capable of managing them. Which is why I don't think Paul would have gambled at this point - he was far too aware of how much of a mess they were in. He truly saw the Eastmans as the solution, the only solution.

(nemperor once listed the possible managers for the Beatles as of 1969, and it turned out there ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II itsnotmymind December 9 2016, 13:40:43 UTC
Ringo himself said that if "Lee Eastman had been Lee Northman", he'd sided with Paul.

But that's exactly my point. I know the situation was desperate, but it seems like "maybe my bandmates would be uncomfortable being managed by my future in-laws", especially with band already in a band state of relations. The #1 reason that Eastmans were not a good idea of the Beatles wasn't John L.'s personality clash with Lee Eastman, but the fact that they were Paul's in-laws. I wonder if Lee and Paul discussed that at all beforehand, what they said.

BTW, this is what Paul had to say about the situation in the Beatles' Anthology:

I put forward Lee Eastman as a possible lawyer but they said, 'No, he'd be too biased for you and against us.' I could see that, so I asked him, 'If the Beatles wanted you to do this, would you do it?' And he said, 'Yeah, I might, you know.' So I then asked them before I asked Lee Eastman seriously. and they said 'No way - he'd be too biased.' They were right - it was just as well he didn't do it, because it really ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II selenak December 10 2016, 09:44:09 UTC
Also, even if relations between the Beatles were good, I have a hard time seeing John, George, and Ringo being OK with being managed by Paul's in-laws. No matter how well-intentioned Paul and said in-laws were. I think everyone would have been better able to communicate about it, but I don't think they would have accepted it.Probably not, you're right. I'm trying to think of precedent and parallels, because they did employ a lot of their friends from Liverpool, of course, and nobody had objected to, say, Paul giving Peter Asher a key job at Apple (that survived the Paul/Jane breakup) - but none of them were ever in a position of power over the band, which automatically comes with the management gig. Then again, pre-Brian, management was handled by a wild variety of people, with Alan Williams being the only semi professional to do it, and none of these was treated as an authority. And of course post Brian's death, "we'll manage ourselves" had resulted in de facto Paul being manager (initializing projects except for India, which was ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II itsnotmymind December 10 2016, 17:10:31 UTC
I think Paul making financial decisions for the band would be a completely different power dynamic then Paul having his new girlfriend/wife's family, all people whom the others barely know, making financial decisions. It's a different level of trust.

Paul's decision to try to get the others to accept his in-laws actually reminds of the whole betting busted for pot in Japan. I mean, really, what was he thinking? But maybe Paul isn't always making these decisions on a conscious level? John thought that might be the case, about Paul's public announcements at convenient moments:

John: Do you remember if Paul's statement on acid came out after Sergeant Pepper?
Q: Just as it was released.
John: I see. He always times his big announcements right on the letter, doesn't he. Like leaving the Beatles. Maybe it's instinctive. It probably is.If John Lennon couldn't be certain as to whether Paul McCartney made decisions based on conscious thought or instinctively, I'm probably not going to be able to have much luck ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II selenak December 11 2016, 14:38:29 UTC
Paul's decision to try to get the others to accept his in-laws actually reminds of the whole betting busted for pot in Japan. I mean, really, what was he thinking?The pot busts (not just but especially the Japan one; you could throw the other 1970s one as well) are more evidence of not thinking at all. Or, more seriously: of the hubris that comes with having been a global superstar for (by then) almost two decades. I mean, of course there are far worse examples - people who shall remain Keith Richards snorted away thousands of dollars with the cops standing by because He's A Rebel, You Know - but Paul is by no means immune to the syndrome. Whereas he evidently did think about the management question, he just didn't come to the right (and yes, likely, I admit) conclusion ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II itsnotmymind December 11 2016, 15:09:15 UTC
I wonder if John really thought Ray Connolly would tell the news or not. Was he upset with Ray before Paul told all first? Maybe John wasn't entirely sure if he wanted it to be public or not.

I don't think John quite meant it when he told Paul he wanted a "divorce". The Beatles were ending in many ways, but I also suspect John was testing Paul's Oh! Darling claim that he wouldn't be able to make it without John. You can't live without me? Fine, I want a DIVORCE just like my DIVORCE from my wife CYNTHIA.

When Paul announced the break-up the way he did John's first thought was probably that he had been wrong: Oh! Darling and The Long and Winding Road and all those songs had not been autobiographical after all. The musical communication he had though had been going on had not been. And then Ram came out, where Paul seemed to be saying that he had been devastated, and "I guess you never saw, dear boy, that love was there", and Linda saved his life ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II selenak December 11 2016, 17:53:02 UTC
Was he upset with Ray before Paul told all first? Maybe John wasn't entirely sure if he wanted it to be public or not.

No to the former, and that's very possible for the later. This keeping a foot in the door thing strikes me as fairly typical for John. As long as it wasn't public, after all, he could always change his mind, and so could everyone else. (I would say that George for one wasn't likely to, but in Chris O'Dell's memoirs, she writes that when he got the news about Paul's interview/release, he went into the garden and wanted to be alone, and that it appeared to be quite a blow - George, who you'd think would have said "at last" at least on some level.) Incidentally, when they stopped touring it's worth noting that Paul was the last hold out but once he said he didn't want to tour anymore, either, suddenly that was that. It had become real. Perhaps this was the pattern - the curtain didn't fall until Paul let it fall, no matter how much the other three before that point had said they wanted it to.

As you said before, ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II itsnotmymind December 11 2016, 19:44:56 UTC
Perhaps this was the pattern - the curtain didn't fall until Paul let it fall, no matter how much the other three before that point had said they wanted it to.

I've always found this bit from Lennon Remembers telling:

WENNER: You said you quit the Beatles first.
LENNON: Yes.
WENNER: How?
LENNON: I said to Paul “I’m leaving.”

John quit the Beatles by telling Paul he quit the Beatles. He told a lot of other people, too, but it was telling Paul that minute it was real. I believe Peter Doggett determined that George wasn't even at the meeting. It was telling Paul that made it significant.

Point about Linda and Scotland. That's an an interesting idea, that Paul would have behaved differently around John when she was there. Quite plausible, since John seems to have done the same thing with Yoko. I do find it interesting that John in the St. Regis Hotel interview made a comment about how they all got along with Linda. Pretty high praise from John in 1971, I would say.

Just speculating, though: what WOULD have been John's ideal way for ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II selenak December 12 2016, 11:12:01 UTC
I believe Peter Doggett determined that George wasn't even at the meeting.

Indeed he did. I hope Ringo told him what went on, otherwise ensuing events must have been even more confusing for George than they were already. Then again, John told the world in "Lennon Remembers", so he did find out then at the latest.

I do find it interesting that John in the St. Regis Hotel interview made a comment about how they all got along with Linda. Pretty high praise from John in 1971, I would say.

True. Some of it was probably because of that awful sexist cliché that was making the rounds then that the entire Beatles collapse was due to a Linda/Yoko feud, and he was eager to set things straight. (Isn't there even a Mimi interview from 1970 where she says it must have been all because of Yoko and Linda?) But I also think John meant it in that he found Linda herself unobjectionable and even good company. Her getting along with as many rock stars as she did as a photographer wasn't solely because some of them had sex with her. I mean, if Barry ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues II itsnotmymind December 12 2016, 19:29:36 UTC
In the Beatles Anthology, George said: I don't remember about John saying he wanted to break up the Beatles. I don't remember where I heard it. Everybody had tried to leave, so it was nothing new. Everybody was leaving for years.It was a very important moment for John and Paul - not so much for George ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues I itsnotmymind December 9 2016, 13:45:29 UTC
With so many songs on Ram contain references to John (I'm certain Too Many People, Dear Boy, and 3 Legs are all about John to some degree, and possibly Back Seat of My Car), it does seem that Paul could not keep his anger out of his lyrics, and hence was not in a mood to make peace. It's interesting that he WAS in that mood after Imagine, though. He claims he liked Imagine better than Plastic Ono Band because he didn't like John's political work, but as John (in a highly nasty manner) point out, they're both a combination of political and personal.

I wonder if the fact that John lashed out at so many people people in Lennon Remembers, instead of just Paul, could have been a factor. I suggested earlier that Paul felt guilty when it appeared that John was triangulating Cynthia and Julian into his drama with Paul. I don't think it was really because of Paul that John felt the need to lash at everyone and their dog in Lennon Remembers, but I wonder if Paul felt some degree of responsibility. Especially where the Eastmans were concerned.

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Re: Management Issues I selenak December 10 2016, 09:19:19 UTC
I don't think it was really because of Paul that John felt the need to lash at everyone and their dog in Lennon Remembers, but I wonder if Paul felt some degree of responsibility. Especially where the Eastmans were concerned.You know, I could see that. I mean, obviously Lee Eastman was no naive innocent and must have had his share of unpleasant conversations for decades before encountering John Lennon, but Peter Brown, by no means a McCartney sympathizer, testifies that John was really spectacularly vicious (and so was Allen Klein) to both Eastmans during their meetings, plus "Lennon Remembers" ensured the entire world was told just what Time's personality of the decade, John Lennon, thought about the Eastmans. And respectability did matter to them - one reason why Lee changed his name, after all ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues I itsnotmymind December 10 2016, 17:02:12 UTC
One certainly does not have to desire respectability to be angry that someone called you "fucking animals" in a public interview. But now I'm wondering, how did that affect Lee and John Eastman's public image and how their business connections saw them? As far as the Beatles story goes, it seems that most writers only object to them inasmuch as they were Paul's in-laws - the fact that John and the others repudiate Klein may have helped with any damage done to the Eastman's reputation. I would bet that the success of Paul and Linda's marriage helped, too ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues I selenak December 11 2016, 17:19:26 UTC
Good point, especially given that John in 1970 (i.e. pre Imagine) hadn't yet proven he could be as musically successful without George Martin, and the public awareness of GM was enormous. (I won't say more than of any other contemporary record producer, because there's always Phil Spector, who was seen as THE GENIUS more than any of his individual artists.) BTW, as on other occasions, John's paranoia re: people thinking it was all George Martin wasn't without any foundation; I remember Hanif Kureishi writing how he remembers being a Beatles fan in (a London) school and incredibly excited when Sgt. Pepper was released, and how angry he was when his teacher told him there was no way two uneducated proles could have composed this, it must have been George Martin. However, snobby teachers aside, I don't think any press or radio or tv clailmed that; by 1970 certainly thinking that John was a songwriting genius was pretty much universal.

Sidenote: George Martin’s music, please, just play me some. Well, in 1970 there was always that ( ... )

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Re: Management Issues I itsnotmymind December 11 2016, 17:25:42 UTC
Kudos to George Martin for lack of an overblown ego. Too bad John and Paul weren't as good at managing that! I wonder if John read All You Needs Is Ears. I haven't read it myself, though I know I've heard it mentioned before.

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