John Lennon and Women

[itsnotmymind]

It's taken for granted among most of us voyeurs who analyze the psychology of the Beatles that John Lennon liked to be dominated by strong women. Mimi, Yoko...Many people, both those who knew John personally and chose who only know him by reputation, have said this.

Comments

[selenak]

There's also the part where both Cynthia and May were long term relationships, not one night stands. Not very functional ones, but long term, and not explainable just by external pressure (John was with Cynthia for years before she became pregnant, and no matter the initial input of Yoko in the set up with May, this also lasted for years beyond the immediate Lost Weekend phase). I think with John it's also worth considering that general socialisation of his time (men dominating women = normal) was in direct conflict with the Stanley family standard - all five Stanley sisters, not "just" Mimi and Julia, dominating their partners or in Julia's case at least calling the shots as to the relationships starting and ending; the other three sisters, Nana, Harriet and can't-think-of-third-name-right-now, are described as being in charge of their marriages by all the memoirs and biographies I've read, and after the death of their father Mimi was definitely the matriarch of the entire clan. So you have general socialization versus family

[itsnotmymind]

While I tend to take anything John Lennon said in interviews with a grain of salt, it is worth noting that he attributed his hostility towards women to the media (i.e., the dominant culture), while he said his earliest feminist education came from his mother and her sisters.

Another thing that sometimes gets overlooked when people discuss John's desire to be is his relationship with Paul. Yoko was a replacement for Cynthia, but she was even moreso a replacement for Paul. I don't think Paul was as dominant with John as Yoko was - the fact that Paul is two years younger and they were still teenagers when they met may have been a factor in that. But there were times in their relationship when Paul was very dominant, especially the post-touring pre-Yoko period.

And again with the taking things John said with a grain of salt, but I still find a couple quotes from Lennon Remembers interesting in terms of how he related to Paul:

Paul made an attempt to carry on as if Brian hadn't died by saying, "Now, now, boys, we're going to make a

[lokifan]

I agree, I think it's because it's not what people expect, particularly from a rock star - and also maybe because fans prefer not to consider the fact that John Lennon ever physically abused someone.

[itsnotmymind]

also maybe because fans prefer not to consider the fact that John Lennon ever physically abused someone.

Hah! Yeah, that may be a factor. I have seen it from lots of fans and commentators who are willing to acknowledge that John physically abused someone...and then they turn around and talk about how John liked to be dominated by strong women. "Lennon liked to be dominated by strong women! He beat his first wife, and then he left her for a strong woman who was weird and dominated him!" That seems like the narrative I've encountered a lot, and it's got a bit of cognitive dissonance. Somehow even John's abusiveness towards women isn't proof that he liked dominating them...or that part isn't worth noting.

[lokifan]

Well, tbf there's clear blue water between consensual dominance (what was happening with John and Yoko afaik) and abuse, so maybe it's that. And I actually don't think abuse is necessarily proof he liked dominating them in that sense - like, following the societal script (I am the man so I'm in charge and I can hit them too if they get out of line) and then finding out maybe I don't actually want that seems fairly plausible. But it's weird it's not talked about more.

[itsnotmymind]

I can see that - although I don't think John entirely changed his mind, because when he and Yoko separated she set him up with a woman named May Pang, and John was physically and verbally abusive to May, too, and was the dominate partner in the relationship. Part of what bothers me is that people think that John being in a relationship with a dominant woman is as worthy of comment as John abusing women. But you have a point about societal scripts - maybe the issue isn't so much the people making the comments as the culture that thinks a woman being in charge and a man being abusive are both worthy of comment as unusual and twisted?