"You are your own expert" also applies to my kid, consistency not required

[ishai_wallace]

It was Sunday morning at Blue Skies, my all-time favorite music festival. The tents were pitched close together, there was accordion and fiddle music, and a gaggle of kids played together in the firelane. One of them, who looked to be about five, stopped and asked me if Stanley was a boy or a girl. I looked at Stanley, and called out "Stanley, are

Comments

[anonymous]

Hmm I agree with the idea of letting children choose what to wear and how to behave and I especially admire your parenting in that you let Stanley identify herself, rather than answering for her. Kudos for independence :)

That said, I actually have a lot of misgivings about gender neutrality:

First off, if someone especially a child, asks you to not identify them as either a guy or a girl, how exactly are you supposed to refer to them? Wiki talks about gender-neutral language, but I'm sorry but that seems to me to be kind of over-the-top. I mean English does not even have gender neutral pronouns, right?

And all the whole point of gender neutrality(I've read a bit and talked with people who know the topic) I agree you shouldn't restrict roles to one particular gender, and that is kinda like feminism where you say everyone can, and should be allowed to, do anything. But at some point you have to identify yourself as ether male or female right? I mean what "gender neutral" really mean for one person? When you fill a registration form, do you tick Male or Female??

Thanks in advance for you answers - and in case I offended anyone, I'm just asking cause I want to know, not making light of the topic....

[ishai_wallace]

I think you are asking two questions:

1) How do you identify someone who does not want either male or female pronouns?, and
2) When does someone have to identify?

I'll get to both of those, but I'm going to add a little bit about my language choices. Mostly, that I don't use "gender neutral". Even when it comes to labeling bathrooms, I prefer "all gender" or "gender inclusive" to "gender neutral. I'm not neutral about gender, I am very aware that we ascribe different benefits to different gender identities and that gender is not neutral. I'm also not interested in getting rid of gender - I think gender can be a great deal of fun, and many people find a great deal of meaning and belonging in expressing a particular gender identity. I'm interested in not assigning a gender based on sex, in not limiting people to only two gender options, not saying you have to pick a gender and stick with it, and in not valuing genders differently.

1) How do you identify someone who does not want either male or female pronouns?
The same as you identify people who do want you to use male or female pronouns - in whatever way feels most appropriate to the individual. For a long time my husband has been a proponent of "ze" and "hir". I know several people who prefer "them". I know others who would prefer people used their name thank you very much. Sure, most people I know prefer "he" or "she" but that does not stop me using other words for other people.

English is a living language. It's a voracious living language that eats up words from other languages, and that incorportates and invents new ones all the time. English is less gendered than French, Spanish or Hebrew, but more gendered than Hungarian (just the languages I am most familiar with). We can either use words that are already part of English, like them, or invent new ones.

2) When does someone have to identify?
I've re-worded your question a little, because I do not think there is ever a time you have to chose only male or female. Certainly there are times that others will try to make you pick, like forms, but I believe you can skip the question, or write in your own box, or choose one of the options there. Yes, I left the sex box unchecked on my most recent passport application, and the passport officer then talked to me about options and how they would all work. I think we always get the option to choose - sometimes there are consequences for those choices, but that does not meant we do not get a choice. We talk about "questioning" as a sexual orientation, and I think it can also be a fine gender identity, as can others that are between or outside of male and female.

[w1ldc47]

Mostly, that I don't use "gender neutral". Even when it comes to labeling bathrooms, I prefer "all gender" or "gender inclusive" to "gender neutral. I'm not neutral about gender, I am very aware that we ascribe different benefits to different gender identities and that gender is not neutral.

I really disagree with this. I think when 'neutral' is used as a modifier, as in 'gender-neutral', 'height-neutral', or whatever 'X-neutral', it explicitly means 'regardless of the status of X' rather than 'X is not real' or 'X doesn't matter.' It's like the distinction between immoral and amoral.

I'm not a fan of 'all-gender' or 'gender-inclusive' because I still feel like it excludes (to pluck an example out of the air) people like me, who have no gender identity, hate the whole idea of gender, and find it an at-best-empty-but-usually-harmful construct in our lives. 'Gender-neutral' includes all the people included by your terms, plus people like me.

[ishai_wallace]

And perhaps this is where we end up just calling it "washroom" or "toilet" and leaving it at that.

I don't feel included in "gender neutral". I find it offensive. Too often it means "too freaky to pee in the regular places" (and not in a good way), or "toilets for the people we don't value".