Oh, please. I like Christine, I don't see her as any kind of a threat just because she's a female character with a name and lines who appears within 100 miles of Tony Stark (this is, it seems, a minority opinion), and I see the fact that she had sex with Tony in the first film to be more of a side-note to her actual role calling Tony to action and reminding him of his responsibilities. She's the movie's driving moral force, and I love that they gave that role to a woman.
It's kind of sad that there were only two female characters with a) a name and b) lines in the first movie, and the prevailing fan reaction is to paint them as the stereotypical virgin vs. whore. It shows a lack of imagination and a nasty Puritanical streak.
Not thrilled that this is in the movie. Not at all.
I like Christine, too. I'm just not totally gun-ho over a woman who blatantly tries to act superior to another for no reason. But I think she's an excellent reporter and as you said, she's what gave Tony that moral kick start.
And I personally don't think she's a whore. She had a one night stand. It's not unheard of and shouldn't be so taboo.
I just liked that Pepper stuck it back to her after she insulted her in the first movie. Not that Pepper didn't just take it back then, either.
Just saying, I'm not hating on Christine, I'm just loving Pepper not taking anyone's shit.
I LOVE HOW THEY DEGRADE HER is not a usual thing to say about someone that you like, unless you move in kinkier circles than I do. Which, if that's the case, my bad, no harm done, whatever floats your boat.
And, honestly, I'm disappointed in Pepper. I really am. I liked her snapping right back in the first movie; it seemed like they were even, and done, and could move on like professional adults. Apparently, not so much. I'm kind of hoping this doesn't make it to the final cut of the movie.
It's kind of sad that there were only two female characters with a) a name and b) lines in the first movie, and the prevailing fan reaction is to paint them as the stereotypical virgin vs. whore.
I have to admit, this is why I feel comfortable trumpeting my love for Pepper but usually don't say anything else when other women are brought up. There's a bit of a 'Tony's a slut and we like him that way' versus 'the nameless girls he sleeps with are sluts and we hate them that way' thing going on sometimes that really irks me. I'm not sure how many feminists are in the fandom, but there are way too many folks writing questionable fic (a la 'let's write women as virgins/whores') to make me feel entirely comfortable speaking up, so I keep my mouth shut. I wish I could engage my fandom more without feeling isolated in my unease.
All this to say: thank you for saying something. And thanks to okami_oujou and dafnap.
(Not to say I hate anyone in the fandom for not being super flag waving feminists or anything. :/)
but there are way too many folks writing questionable fic (a la 'let's write women as virgins/whores') to make me feel entirely comfortable speaking up, so I keep my mouth shut. I wish I could engage my fandom more without feeling isolated in my unease.
you're not alone. Some of us have tried to speak up, to... pretty much no success. But it's nice to know there are more people out there who are offended by the way the fandom can treat the female characters not Pepper, as well as the way the fandom occasionally writes the Tony/Pepper dynamic as deeply skeevy.
no, I mean the fics where Tony sexually harasses Pepper and it is seen as romantic, fics where Pepper's consent is brushed aside or ignored... I could go on but I frankly don't feel up to rehashing it all. I've largely stopped reading fic posted to tonypepper because of this.
OH, I know exactly what you mean. I've stopped reading a lot of fics cause things tend to be just too out character. But I agree with you on this one. Pepper's a strong woman and sometimes people forget that.
But it's nice to know there are more people out there who are offended by the way the fandom can treat the female characters not Pepper, as well as the way the fandom occasionally writes the Tony/Pepper dynamic as deeply skeevy.
There are. Funny how a lot of them tend to go quiet.
Some fics I've stumbled into have gone beyond skeevy into the realm of triggery--and were not tagged as anything where I usually expect to find beyond-skeevy.
There's a level of misunderstanding going on regarding what it means to write a "strong female character," and the application of that misunderstanding ends up removing agency from its subject, and therefore what qualities made her a "strong female character" in the process. Which also fails the "show, don't tell" test, so it ends up being bad writing all around.
It's kind of sad that there were only two female characters with a) a name and b) lines in the first movie, and the prevailing fan reaction is to paint them as the stereotypical virgin vs. whore. It shows a lack of imagination and a nasty Puritanical streak.
Not thrilled that this is in the movie. Not at all.
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And I personally don't think she's a whore. She had a one night stand. It's not unheard of and shouldn't be so taboo.
I just liked that Pepper stuck it back to her after she insulted her in the first movie. Not that Pepper didn't just take it back then, either.
Just saying, I'm not hating on Christine, I'm just loving Pepper not taking anyone's shit.
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And, honestly, I'm disappointed in Pepper. I really am. I liked her snapping right back in the first movie; it seemed like they were even, and done, and could move on like professional adults. Apparently, not so much. I'm kind of hoping this doesn't make it to the final cut of the movie.
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I have to admit, this is why I feel comfortable trumpeting my love for Pepper but usually don't say anything else when other women are brought up. There's a bit of a 'Tony's a slut and we like him that way' versus 'the nameless girls he sleeps with are sluts and we hate them that way' thing going on sometimes that really irks me. I'm not sure how many feminists are in the fandom, but there are way too many folks writing questionable fic (a la 'let's write women as virgins/whores') to make me feel entirely comfortable speaking up, so I keep my mouth shut. I wish I could engage my fandom more without feeling isolated in my unease.
All this to say: thank you for saying something. And thanks to okami_oujou and dafnap.
(Not to say I hate anyone in the fandom for not being super flag waving feminists or anything. :/)
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you're not alone. Some of us have tried to speak up, to... pretty much no success. But it's nice to know there are more people out there who are offended by the way the fandom can treat the female characters not Pepper, as well as the way the fandom occasionally writes the Tony/Pepper dynamic as deeply skeevy.
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There are. Funny how a lot of them tend to go quiet.
Some fics I've stumbled into have gone beyond skeevy into the realm of triggery--and were not tagged as anything where I usually expect to find beyond-skeevy.
There's a level of misunderstanding going on regarding what it means to write a "strong female character," and the application of that misunderstanding ends up removing agency from its subject, and therefore what qualities made her a "strong female character" in the process. Which also fails the "show, don't tell" test, so it ends up being bad writing all around.
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