Miller is far, far from the first to read them as lovers. The first people to do that were also the ancient greeks! Homer didn't SAY they were lovers, but everyone basically said "yeah, they're lovers."
The relationship between two men in that time and place was exceptionally common, and was, as I recall, even considered to be a part of growing up. This was... normal life. Part of growing up.
It's important to remember that, as more 'modern' people found evidence of these sorts of opinions, they generally frantically hid them. Kind of hard to be part of a society that punished sodomy with death and sexuality was Never to Be Spoken of AND still adore the grand tradition of Ancient Greece. So, y'know, they were ~friends~ and had a ~warriors bond~ and the focus is on ~love~ and ~comrades~ and it would be terrible to ~taint~ it with an "erotic" understanding.
Achilles and PatroclesinverarityOctober 9 2019, 00:14:56 UTC
I might have been a little overly cute with the whole "slashfic" thing. I know that the Greeks were less coy about Patrocles' and Achilles' relationship.
In The Song of Achilles, Miller portrays it as something they sort of kept on the down-low, not because the Greeks thought man-love was particularly immoral, but because it was something you were supposed to outgrow once you were out of boyhood. Men were supposed to settle down with wives and slave-girls and make little Myrmidons.
Re: Achilles and PatroclesunekoOctober 10 2019, 01:23:30 UTC
Actually I was replying more to the statement "I don't think Miller is the first reinterpreter of Homer's epic to suggest..." which implied, at least to me, that you weren't sure on the matter and weren't aware of the actual history -- which I think is fascinating, which was why I was happy to type about it :)
Miller is far, far from the first to read them as lovers. The first people to do that were also the ancient greeks! Homer didn't SAY they were lovers, but everyone basically said "yeah, they're lovers."
The relationship between two men in that time and place was exceptionally common, and was, as I recall, even considered to be a part of growing up. This was... normal life. Part of growing up.
It's important to remember that, as more 'modern' people found evidence of these sorts of opinions, they generally frantically hid them. Kind of hard to be part of a society that punished sodomy with death and sexuality was Never to Be Spoken of AND still adore the grand tradition of Ancient Greece. So, y'know, they were ~friends~ and had a ~warriors bond~ and the focus is on ~love~ and ~comrades~ and it would be terrible to ~taint~ it with an "erotic" understanding.
some fun reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_and_Patroclus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece
Anyway, sounds like the book had some pacing issues, all the same, yikes!
I'd talk more, but I have to run off to a doctor's appointment right now!
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In The Song of Achilles, Miller portrays it as something they sort of kept on the down-low, not because the Greeks thought man-love was particularly immoral, but because it was something you were supposed to outgrow once you were out of boyhood. Men were supposed to settle down with wives and slave-girls and make little Myrmidons.
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