Bust Magazine Interview
Taking on Gay Inc and Mainstream Hollywood: An Actress Speaks Out
By: Kelly Tolbert
Pissed as hell, Gina Case is speaking out. In this exclusive interview with Bust, Case opens up about sex, sexuality, and the reality of women in Hollywood.
She’s already at the coffee shop when I arrive. It is a usual spot for her, as the last interview that she did for Bust Magazine revealed. She is on the front porch, where dogs are allowed, and her trusty sidekick, a pitbull named Ruby, is curled up at her feet. As I approach, she lowers the coffee cup and waves.
Gina Case.
The last time we met, season two of All the King’s Men had just premiered and Gina Case was becoming as much a household name as any TV actress tends to be. Beloved from shows such as The 5th Floor, her gap toothed smile and tomboyish attitude were part of what brought the lesbian community to her door. The fact that she could dress it up to the nines on the red carpet only boosted her appeal. The last time we talked, she gushed about life on a fantasy drama, introduced me to Ruby, and explained her surfing obsession. We did not, in any terms whatsoever, talk about her rumored lesbianism. Today would be a different story. Today, she’d granted this interview to Bust not just to talk about her bisexuality and reach an audience that needs to hear it, but because we as a feminist magazine have something to say about the inherent sexism in Hollywood.
Bust: It’s been a rather wild few months. Why don’t you get us caught up.
GC: I’d take up your entire magazine.
Bust: Ahhh, give us the highlights. You’ve moved on to another show. You’re nominated for an Emmy. You’re dating. And it’s actually public.
GC: And actually a man.
She takes a breath here and I wait, knowing there is something she is going to say that is going to turn the comments section of this article into a war. I see that reality cross her face and for a minute she glances to the door and seems like she wants to run. Instead she looks at me and then, to my surprise, she smiles.
GC: Yes, I’m dating someone. And he’s wonderful. He’s also not the first guy I’ve dated. I saw a comment somewhere that said how cute it was that I was getting boys out of my system. No. I’ve got someone in my system who is amazing.
Bust: You have to admit it was a surprise.
GC: No, actually. I don’t. I’d never made my personal life public before. For all anyone knew, I was married with children and yes, that rumor also exists. And maybe keeping everything so private was a mistake, but I really didn’t think I was a big enough deal for people to care.
Bust: So why keep it a secret?
GC: Because I want you to imagine the world weighing in on the most personal aspects of your life. I dare you to not get defensive. Add to it the inherent issues that come with coming out as queer, let alone bisexual. The fact of the matter is that everyone wants to be treated with respect. My sexuality has led to my being called every name in the book and some people have flat out said that I deserve rape because I wouldn’t know what I wanted anyway. Yes, I’m bisexual. I’m also a human being.
She falls silent and looks at me and I realize it’s my job as a reporter to say something. But I’m still wrapping my mind around the rape thing.
Bust: At the risk of blaming the victim here, isn’t that the reason more actors in Hollywood should come out?
GC: Yes and no. No, because I’m a damned human being and so is my boyfriend and the bullshit that’s been thrown at us over the last couple of months is disgusting. When this happened to members of the gay and lesbian communities, the advocacy groups spoke out loudly against it. With us, silence. Yes, more bisexuals in Hollywood clearly need to come out, because the more of us who do the more we will be treated as human beings and not anomalies. But it’s hard to come out when Gay, Inc. doesn’t say a damned word about the harassment and often helps to perpetuate it. Recently, an online gay men’s publication asked “Would you ever date a bi man?” The responses were overwhelmingly negative and bordering on hate speech.
And there it is. The first thing she’s pissed about. While I know it is not directly aimed at Bust, I get the feeling that she’s picked us because we are a part of the machine but we’re also removed enough from it that we will still run with this article. A little bit of research on the Google Machine showed she is right. Gay, Inc (read: GLADD, LAMBDA, and publications such as Out and the Advocate) has said very little in defense of bisexual actors, singers, and athletes while running full cover stories on lesbian and gay ones. By and large, the people who have spoken up have been members of the bi and trans communities. With the exception of a few publications, including afterellen.com, there has been little to no comment.
Bust: Why do you think it is? That no one from Gay, Inc. has spoken up?
GC: I wish I knew the answer to that. Don’t get me wrong, there has been fantastic response from many of our peers. But it’s easy to lose that sense of support in the mess that has become our public lives. Somewhere in that, a musician and an actor are supposed to make sense of the world. It’s hard to fall in love in chaos so you try to shut off the world, but it’s impossible and then you spend all your time worrying that you’re together not because you want to be but because you’re the only shelter the other person has.
Again, I have to sit back and wrap my mind around what she’s saying. It’s rare to have an actor be so frank, so candid, so vulnerable. Usually when we meet, they’re simply pissed at something or they are gung ho about their most recent advocacy adventure. This is different. While she waits for me to speak, Gina clicks on her phone and I catch the lock screen. It is a picture of the aforementioned boyfriend and he’s holding out what looks to be a cupcake.
Bust: What about the debate within the community regarding bisexuality, pansexuality, omnisexuality, and even asexuality. Activists from all groups tend to attack each other and accuse the other groups of not sticking up for them.
GC: That’s an issue, I will grant you that. And it’s a hard one to defend because people in the pansexual and omnisexual communities do get tired of being asked questions like “why did you have to split off and define yourself differently” and people in the bi community get angry because we hear over and over again that we are still the root cause of the problem because we exist in this binary. The truth is that all of these definitions come from a place of just wanting to find connections to people who think like we do. And there needs to be more discussion about all the different labels and all the different ways we define sexuality and sexual orientation. There needs to be talk about asexuality. And there needs to be talk about the differences between bi-romanticsm and bi-sexuality.
Bust: What is the difference?
GC: (smiles) Well, one focuses on sex. One doesn’t. My point is that we could go on for days about definitions, and I think it’s important to understand how our brains and our bodies react to themselves and to other people. I also think that the more we lose ourselves in those definitions, the more we isolate from each other and the less we want to work together to solve problems that seem to keep stalling.
Bust: So why does this matter so much to you? Personally. Not on just a community sense?
GC: Because there are people out there calling my boyfriend a rapist. And somehow, it gets worse than that. They are perpetuating the idea that rape is acceptable for a certain group of people. This isn’t some fucking joke or an act of vanity. Bi kids are more likely to try to commit suicide than gay or lesbian ones. Bi kids are more likely to be raped or molested or harassed. And the media hasn’t done a thing to speak up. Well. Most media. I want to tip my hat to a few outlets who have run great articles on bisexuality and bi research. I want to say thank you again to my fellow actors and his fellow musicians who have taken to the world and told people to shut up. There are fantastic allies out there.
Bust: Why do you think it’s such a big deal? Honestly?
GC: If I had a real answer for you, I don’t think I’d be sitting here talking to you.
At this point, her phone rang. Her scenes had been moved around and she had to call it short. We’d finish the photo shoot for this on the set, she promised, and set it up through the producers while we were sitting there. We would also get together tomorrow to finish things up. It was a good thing, because I had a host of questions. And the time between meetups gave me the chance to do some hard research on what she was talking about.
Part two takes place at her home in the Hollywood Hills. I am greeted by the sound of barking dogs and a masculine voice calling them back. The boyfriend, Hathor Rising guitar player Carlos Munez, answers the door and ushers me in, explaining that the subject of my piece will be out in a minute. Gina caught an early season flu bug and was not able to take time off from shooting, so her time off was spent resting. She would have cancelled but wanted to respect my deadline. Gina emerges from the bedroom in a set of Hathor Rising sweats and a Salt City Raptors t-shirt. Carlos provides tea and curls up next to Gina on the couch after making sure she is tucked into blankets.
This conversation already has a different tone, and not just due to the change of location, the addition of the boyfriend, or Gina being ill. There is a sadness in the room. A resignation. They didn’t want to be doing this. Carlos speaks first.
CM: I’m not sure what’s worse. The bullshit phobia that comes with this situation, the harassment, the racism directed at me, or the fact that Gina has to deal with sexual harassment on top of everything else.
The revelation of sexual harassment in Hollywood is not surprising to this cynical reporter. What I am surprised about are the tears that touch Gina’s eyes. Again, I am not used to someone being so open and vulnerable.
GC: It’s everywhere. So much so that it permeates into shows run by and led by women. There is pressure from the networks to not hire plus sized actors. Plus sized, by the way, being a size eight. There is pressure to write stories where women are the victims or where women are saved by the men. It’s getting better, don’t get me wrong. But it still exists. Even on Evidence, someone from the network had asked if the women could be given a slightly softer edge. Because they just aren’t as relatable otherwise. Relatable to what?
Bust: Recently, Doug Nelson gave an interview in which he stated that women have one role in Hollywood. He also implied that you gained your success … well …
CG: On my back?
Bust: In so many words.
CM: It wasn’t just an implication.
GC: I worked my ass off to get where I am today and I resent the implication that it was through anything other than hard work and sheer luck.
Bust: So why did he say it?
GC: I don’t know. I’m not in his head.
CM: Because the male ego is a fragile thing. If you ask me, it’s because Gina wouldn’t sleep with him.
Bust: Really?
There is a moment between the two of them, one of those weighted ones that comes with long term relationships and people who have discussed an issue until its death. The silence tells me what I need to know. She puts her hand on his and then looks at me again.
GC: I’m not going to get inside Doug Nelson’s head. I will say that his comments about women in Hollywood were baseless and set back women’s roles fifty years. Worse, there are young women who look up to him. When he said what he said, he justified the actions of every man who harasses them or every teacher who plays favorites to the more developed girls. He made it clear, even if it’s just in a subconscious way, that it’s okay for women to be nothing but objects. He also made it clear that bisexual actors in Hollywood are bad for the business because it is impossible, supposedly, for us to create sexual tension with one specific character. Now, I’m sorry. I’ve dated both men and women. I had no time creating sexual tension with Doug Nelson while we were working together. It was my job and I was well paid for it.
Bust: Do you think he has a point at all though? Perhaps that he was commenting on the situation of the business at large?
GC: I’ve heard that argument in his defense and it is bull. He was speaking directly to his feelings about women in the business. He offered no way to change it. He offered instead a quote, that we should “accept that stories are about the men.” No. Meredith’s story was as much about her own life as it was about her relationship with Robert. He erased women. And in his comments about bisexuality, he erased every single bisexual actor who has come out and is working in this business. Especially the bisexual women. He erased people. People who kids look up to. Kids are killing themselves and all people seem to want to talk about is whether or not bisexuality actually exists. Let me repeat myself: kids are killing themselves. Nothing else matters. And if Doug Nelson actually cared about the young men and women who look up to him, he would watch his words more carefully.
Bust: Does it worry you that you’re fighting this through the media?
GC: That I’ll look petty? [She laughs] Well. He started it.
Bust: Did Doug Nelson ever sexually harass you?
And then she said something that made me realize just how far we have to go.
GC: It wouldn’t matter if I said yes or if I said no. What proof would I have to offer? We are a proof based society. I can pull up Carlos’ or my twitter accounts and show you the proof of support versus detractors. I can pull up statistics on bisexuality and youth. I can show you the lists of the few out bi actors in Hollywood and show you the list of how few of them are working regularly compared to their gay, lesbian, or straight counterparts. The same goes for musicians. So it wouldn’t matter if I said yes or no to your question about Doug’s harassment of me. All I’d be saying is something that could be debated forever, because there would be no proof.
That gave me all the answer I personally needed. But she was right. If she came out and said anything, she’d be ripped apart. Interestingly enough, Doug Nelson’s comments have not been debated.
Bust: So what’s the next step? We’ve talked about the problems, but there are still no solutions offered. How do we fix this?
GC: It starts with people like me and Carlos living our lives out there, which is something we both did not want to do. We wanted privacy. We wanted to avoid this. We just want to hang out and enjoy each other and not worry about what the world is saying.
CM: But there comes a point where avoidance only gets you a glass house and people are throwing stones at it anyway.
Bust: And after that?
GC: Education and working together as allies. One of the reasons so many in the bi community don’t come out is because of this reaction. On a large or a small scale. Every time Dan Savage offers one of his back handed apologies or compliments to the bi community, one more kid thinks he or she isn’t worthy. Every time a leading man calls women nothing but arm candy, one more kid thinks she is unworthy. We need to be working together as a queer community to understand that every dead kid is part of us. Every harassed actress is one of us. It means educating, it means speaking out, and it means having really uncomfortable conversations like this one. I’m pissing off a lot of people by saying what I’m saying. I know this. But someone has to. We can’t, as a bi community, sit back and wring our hands. We have to speak up. And Gay, Inc and the Hollywood Powers that Be have to come along for the ride. I’m going to get a lot of shit for saying this, and I’m scared to do it. But we need to actually come together and so for as angry as I am, I’m also begging that we do find a way to stand as allies. Otherwise, everything else we’ve achieved - being able to be out, same sex couples being able to marry, equality in hiring and housing and medical care. Well. All of that really won’t matter.
Editor’s Note:
Shortly after this interview was conducted, Carlos Munez was attacked at a coffee shop in San Francisco. Witness statements said that the attacker was using racial slurs and accusing the bisexual population of not being a true part of the gay community. Munez, who was reportedly having coffee with a friend (some statements say ex-boyfriend) at the time, suffered a broken nose and contusions to his face.
Bust contacted both Munez and Gina Case for comment. Munez provided us with a statement issued through Hathor Rising management. It thanks the fans for their support, refers press calls back to the SFPD, and asks for privacy. Case referred us back to what she had already spoken about in our conversation. She added that she found it fascinating how few of the mainstream queer publications had chosen to even print the story. Other than that, she said, her comments stand.
Also since this interview was conducted, Case was awarded an Emmy for her performance as Lady Meredith on All the Kings Men. Tabloids have reported an altercation between her and former co-star Doug Nelson, but both camps have refused to comment on the story.
Photos Here