Age of Ultron: thinky thoughts

May 03, 2015 01:40

Second viewing of Age of Ultron was on Tuesday for thinky thoughts and third viewing was this afternoon for trying to memorize quotes and checking a few things for fic purposes *grins*. So I bring you further, hopefully more coherent, thinking. Be warned: SPOILERS FOR ALL THE THINGS. Also it’s kind of long and detailed, sorry not sorry ( Read more... )

thinky thoughts, films, meta, joss is boss, fandom dicussion/chatter

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alphaflyer May 4 2015, 16:54:50 UTC
So -- first of all -- WOW. Both for the thoughts, and the synopsis you did for scribble_myname.

Having written a fair bit on some of the character arcs, I'll focus on the "security" theme. The most fascinating thing for me was the interaction with foreign civilians, military and law enforcement to the Avengers' interventions. SO much parallel here to the general resentment of Western/US ideas of global security, even when it IS in the locals' interest. Having the "for your own protection, do X" delivered by robots is actually a spot of political sarcasm at its finest, but alas lost in the mayhem.

Global peace and security is not an end state but a continuum, which requires grassroots cooperation, not dictate. ("Mission accomplished" is, for many reasons, the paradigmatic cry of failure in this regard). Non-acknowledgement of that fact -- coupled with the belief that it is his job to achieve -- is Tony Stark's hubris; its understanding is Nick Fury's personal tragedy (that "trouble" quote). It's the ball you keep rolling up the hill, and when your arms buckle, it rolls right over you. Steve and Clint, I think, understand that their "job" is to help keep pushing it up; Natasha does too, especially in the end. The world will NOT stay saved.

Now in terms of architecture, the look on Pietro's face when the Helicarrier comes up to rescue his people ("Is that SHIELD? ... "That's pretty good!") says it all. There is a role for relief and protection, but attempts at "stopping wars before they start costs lives." I'm not sure I agree with that last bit (hey, I get paid to work in security threat reduction) but it's a question of the how. Nation state governments have their limitations (not to mention their own self-interests...) and with regard to threats coming from the skies, are ill equipped to deal with it in light of political divisions, So clearly there's a place for some over-arching supra-structure, like SHIELD -- but that has to come with accountability. The pre-Cap2 SHIELD had none, and failed as a result. The Avengers have little (except in the form of the Stark Relief Foundation) and people will resent that.

Civil War, in my view, will be set along that particular fault line -- attempts to impose accountability on the protection that is, in fact, needed. No doubt those efforts will go too far (remember wikileaks and the untold damage THAT did, despite people's hailing Assange as a hero), and that's where we'll find our conflict. Let's hope the Russo brothers do it justice (and give us some decently written character moments in the process).

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inkvoices May 4 2015, 18:00:32 UTC
I got wordy *grins*. (If only I could get that wordy more often in fics!)

I know the main theme of resentment was meant to be upheld by Wanda and Pietro, I spotted and appreciated the anti-Avengers graffiti with the dollar signs and the complete ignoring of the Iron Legion. (I noted as well that Baron Struker is apparently handed over to NATO and the ship Klauss is on has painted on the side 'Churchill'. I'm liking the expansion of this world into a more global context.)

You word this much better than me, that Tony sees an end game whilst Steve and Fury doesn't, In this context as well Thor saw getting the sceptre to be an end (and gets mad with Tony when the sceptre is stolen again, and wants to go after it again, only for Natasha to point out the goal has now changed and they now need to stop Ultron). I like this idea, that the 'job' is accepting this continual fight. And that we have Steve, Natasha, and Clint accepting this, and Bruce, Thor, and Tony not as a divison.

The 'stopping wars before they start cost lives' is funnily enough also where I'd disagree with Steve. There's something to be said for risk mitigation. In terms of accontability and Steve's argument with Tony that Tony went ahead with something without the team...is Steve's view, do we think, that accountability is collective? I'm having trouble reconciling a Steve who thinks people should be free to act and that there's no end game to security, with a Steve who cracks down on Tony's individual action, uless the focal point is that it's individual as hufflepuffsneak points out. Or maybe it's also what Tony is doing, or his disregard for consequences...?

My bet is on it being about accountability as well, based on the set up in Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron. They can't do the comics Civil War where it's about revealing identity, because not only are there no masks but everything was put on the internet. Also accountability feels far more relevant to the present day.

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alphaflyer May 4 2015, 18:13:19 UTC
Oh, oh -- you reminded me of what I thought was the unintentionally funniest line: "Strucker has been handed over to NATO."

Where to begin? That NATO has a detention facility? (Emm ... like ... where, and on whose authority?) That NATO would somehow have/take/accept jurisdiction over what amounts to a civilian arrest in a non-NATO member state? And all that without endless fucking sessions of the Atlantic Council in which the US will piss everyone off by suggesting the decision has already been taken, Canada would have to wait for instructions from Ottawa, France would make epically long and incomprehensible statements about something entirely different, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania make a joint statement on membership expansion, and Turkey and Greece make it all about the potential impact on Cyprus?

Right up there with that wonderful statement in Godzilla, that NATO had taken jurisdiction over Tokyo. No wonder people on this planet are paranoid.

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inkvoices May 4 2015, 18:15:47 UTC
Bwahaha, yes, THIS. And then I was like, 'Oh, it's okay, he's dead now anyway.'

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inkvoices May 4 2015, 18:31:24 UTC
Wait, wait, wait, so what if they've run through a bunch of security agencies and goverments, handing over HYRDA to various ones, and it doesn't go well, and they just drop Strucker off with this random NATO person who's all why and can't just hand him over to someone in your own country? and the Avengers all um, they don't really like us since Steve dropped three helicariers on Washington, we try not to talk about it. And NATO person is what the hell do I do now? And THEN Coulson kind of casually turns up, shades on. "I'll take him." "Um, no?" "I can knock you out?" "Please?"

Or something ;)

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