Of course I don't want to change my position. That doesn't mean it wouldn't change if I learned something new. The issue is I've already had the Christianity conversation literally dozens and dozens of times. After the first dozen or so... I really stopped hearing any new arguments. The only thing I learned was the conversation probably wasn't going to go anywhere unless it is a long, ongoing thing and I don't have the time and energy to do that with random Christians whom I don't know on another level. It's exacerbating. I was Christian. Deeply. It took years for me to go from the concept of questioning to atheism. It's not something I can or care to articulate in a few conversations. Thus, I try not to get into it anymore. The only thing I really want is to not have wildly inaccurate assumptions made about me based on my lack of religion. Oh, and to let it be known that I AM here. That there are many of us. That's not such an issue after moving out of a heavily religious area to a city which is predominantly not exactly Christian. I also have little interest in engaging Christians because they're losing ground anyway. The religion is, thankfully, fading away both in influence and numbers.
I do know science. I do know history. I find no "validation" of any religion in it. I find a lot to the contrary though. Many of the concepts of Christianity were well used before they became reinvented as Christianity. It's hilarious that Christians think their story is new. Virgin birth? Resurrection? *yawn* It's like a bad movie being remade again and again.
God as logical? That's exactly why this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. Your "reality" is so far from mine that you come off as utterly out of your mind.
No, there is no purpose in the universe. I'm okay with that too. As for love, goodwill, etc... We evolved as social creatures. Social creatures have bonds that serve survival purposes. I have feelings. I create attachments. I have the capacity for empathy. That explains kindness pretty well.
I appreciate your tone and I'm glad to see you hold it open to change your mind if something new is added to the argument. It's sad that you once placed your faith in Christ and later turned back.
If you want to hear something new about Christianity and science that I am positive you have not heard, then please check out the Hydroplate Theory by MIT engineer Dr Walt Brown (www.creationscience.com/onlinebook) He explains in technical detail how the Biblical Flood could have happened and how it explains minutely the geologic features of our planet. In summary, he claims that a worldwide layer of superpressured water resided under the earth (this type of pressured water has been found under the Tibetan Plateau and from oceanic smokers). When this water was pressured to its breaking point, it ruptured out from under the continents above it and jetted out with so much force as to reach space (explaining water in asteroids and in the closest planet, Mars [there is far less water in the other planets]). This water froze in the extreme cold of space and some fell to earth, including in the locations resided by the mammoths. These mammoths have been found frozen with undigested food in their stomachs and mouths. Since these creatures are very much like elephants, these mammoths must have lived in an environment warm enough to support large amounts of vegetation and water. Consumed food recognizable at the time of death requires the preservation factor of sudden freezing, at temperatures no warmer than approximately -150F. Only something colder than such temperatures can cool something to that range, and the cold of space is the only source for this extreme cold on earth. The rainfall of frozen water from space can easily explain how a warm environment can instantly be transformed into a siberia. The underground water jetted out from a globe-encircling crack. The crack in earth's crust widened because of water eroding the rock walls of the crack. The bottom of the underground water chamber was suddenly exposed as the crack widened. This chamber floor busted upward in reaction to the vacuum formed by the water escaping and the miles of rock that suddenly eroded away. This rising chamber floor became the massive Mid-Oceanic Ridge, the longest mountain ridge in the world. The rise of the chamber floor at the Atlantic caused the plates on either side of the Atlantic to slide away from the rising Mid-Oceanic Ridge. Notice how Africa and South America seem to be puzzle pieces from an ancient united continent, divided by the Mid-Oceanic Ridge. The sliding plates of these new continents were lubricated by the water escaping from underneath. When this water finally ran out, the continents buckled into their present position, like throw rugs pushed against a wall. Like a throw rug, these plates wrinkled -- into the Rockies, Andes, and Appalachian mountain ranges, etc. Notice how these ranges are parallel with the Mid-Oceanic Ridge, which runs north-south down the Atlantic. There is so much that the Hydroplate Theory explains (mountains, earthquakes, radioactivity, sedimentary layers, fossil layer order, coal deposits), just one of which the Biblical epoch. A summary of some of the theory's evidences can be found at my sister's writeup of it (http://wp.me/p1nZNF-44). Brown compared his theory to the common plate tectonics theory and found his explained earth's features more consistently than the secular model.
I am assuming that you, like many others, read new mainstream books that herald headline titles that claimed Christianity borrowed from such mystery religions as Mithraism. But those writers can easily oversimplify matters and (especially) recast mystery customs into Christian terms to emphasize parallelism, all because they are seeking the same sensationalism that even Christians can be guilty of when some speak on the end times (such as Harold Camping). If it's one thing I learned in statistics, it's that correlation does not equal causation. Seemingly Christian Mithraic customs are very often dated as appearing after, not before, the outset of Christianity. The "Lord's Supper" of both Mithraism and Christianity indeed finds its origins in another religion: Persian and Jewish customs (the Passover), respectively, not from one another. Almost all pagan parallels to Christianity originated after not before Christianity, so they could not be the origin of Christianity. These are only some of the explanations for the "copycat theory" alleged against Christianity. Gary Lease, an atheist and a professor of religion at UC Santa Cruz and a good friend of my family, even said that "after 100 years of unremitting labor, the conclusion appears inescapable that neither Mithraism nor Christianity proved to be an obvious and direct influence upon the other in the development and demise or survival of either." Resurrection parallels are truly laughable when one considers them: Mystery gods came back to life amid vegetation cycles annually, not once for all in the way Jesus did. More importantly, Jesus' resurrection was a physical, historical, flesh-and-blood event. Pagan cults were a mere mythical drama cast in fantastic language. Notice the down-to-earth nature of the Gospels (as opposed to epic Greek myths). When you look closely at alleged parallels (such as virgin birth, blood of the lamb, etc), differences do arise; most importantly, the fact that the God of Christianity is nothing like the gods of ancient religions. Looking closely at the parallels, really studying them and not resorting to the type of cursory glance typical of these splendid claims, really clears things up.
The book of Daniel, recorded in the Septuagint in the BC era, also prophecies the coming and rejection of Israel's Messiah (Jesus) in chapter 9. Daniel prophesies that 483 years from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem (which was destroyed by invading armies), the Messiah would be revealed to Israel and then "cut off," or killed. King Artaxerxes, who ruled from 465-425 BC, decreed that Jerusalem be rebuilt in his 20th year. 483 years later Jesus rode on a donkey into Jerusalem and revealed Himself as the Messiah, and then He was killed or "cut off" a few days later, just as the prophecy said hundreds of years ago.
And I obviously know that "you ARE here." That was the point of my original post, if you've forgotten. I've found, however, that the decline of religion has led to the slow slide of society. If one looks around, one can see more and more people motivated by selfish desires for the very reason that there is no God in their minds to hold them back or bring them judgment (notice the scruples of old borne of God-consciousness). Obviously there are some moral atheists, such as yourself, but the philosophy gives itself to moral degradation, and atheist Neitzsche recognized this, when he noted that the Western values of human rights and equality stem from Christian ideals in the equality of souls and the preciousness of human life in the eyes of God.
And now I'll stop, because I've went quite long already. Have a good night.
I do know science. I do know history. I find no "validation" of any religion in it. I find a lot to the contrary though. Many of the concepts of Christianity were well used before they became reinvented as Christianity. It's hilarious that Christians think their story is new. Virgin birth? Resurrection? *yawn* It's like a bad movie being remade again and again.
God as logical? That's exactly why this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. Your "reality" is so far from mine that you come off as utterly out of your mind.
No, there is no purpose in the universe. I'm okay with that too. As for love, goodwill, etc... We evolved as social creatures. Social creatures have bonds that serve survival purposes. I have feelings. I create attachments. I have the capacity for empathy. That explains kindness pretty well.
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I appreciate your tone and I'm glad to see you hold it open to change your mind if something new is added to the argument. It's sad that you once placed your faith in Christ and later turned back.
If you want to hear something new about Christianity and science that I am positive you have not heard, then please check out the Hydroplate Theory by MIT engineer Dr Walt Brown (www.creationscience.com/onlinebook) He explains in technical detail how the Biblical Flood could have happened and how it explains minutely the geologic features of our planet. In summary, he claims that a worldwide layer of superpressured water resided under the earth (this type of pressured water has been found under the Tibetan Plateau and from oceanic smokers). When this water was pressured to its breaking point, it ruptured out from under the continents above it and jetted out with so much force as to reach space (explaining water in asteroids and in the closest planet, Mars [there is far less water in the other planets]). This water froze in the extreme cold of space and some fell to earth, including in the locations resided by the mammoths.
These mammoths have been found frozen with undigested food in their stomachs and mouths. Since these creatures are very much like elephants, these mammoths must have lived in an environment warm enough to support large amounts of vegetation and water. Consumed food recognizable at the time of death requires the preservation factor of sudden freezing, at temperatures no warmer than approximately -150F. Only something colder than such temperatures can cool something to that range, and the cold of space is the only source for this extreme cold on earth. The rainfall of frozen water from space can easily explain how a warm environment can instantly be transformed into a siberia.
The underground water jetted out from a globe-encircling crack. The crack in earth's crust widened because of water eroding the rock walls of the crack. The bottom of the underground water chamber was suddenly exposed as the crack widened. This chamber floor busted upward in reaction to the vacuum formed by the water escaping and the miles of rock that suddenly eroded away. This rising chamber floor became the massive Mid-Oceanic Ridge, the longest mountain ridge in the world.
The rise of the chamber floor at the Atlantic caused the plates on either side of the Atlantic to slide away from the rising Mid-Oceanic Ridge. Notice how Africa and South America seem to be puzzle pieces from an ancient united continent, divided by the Mid-Oceanic Ridge. The sliding plates of these new continents were lubricated by the water escaping from underneath. When this water finally ran out, the continents buckled into their present position, like throw rugs pushed against a wall. Like a throw rug, these plates wrinkled -- into the Rockies, Andes, and Appalachian mountain ranges, etc. Notice how these ranges are parallel with the Mid-Oceanic Ridge, which runs north-south down the Atlantic.
There is so much that the Hydroplate Theory explains (mountains, earthquakes, radioactivity, sedimentary layers, fossil layer order, coal deposits), just one of which the Biblical epoch. A summary of some of the theory's evidences can be found at my sister's writeup of it (http://wp.me/p1nZNF-44). Brown compared his theory to the common plate tectonics theory and found his explained earth's features more consistently than the secular model.
Reply
I am assuming that you, like many others, read new mainstream books that herald headline titles that claimed Christianity borrowed from such mystery religions as Mithraism. But those writers can easily oversimplify matters and (especially) recast mystery customs into Christian terms to emphasize parallelism, all because they are seeking the same sensationalism that even Christians can be guilty of when some speak on the end times (such as Harold Camping). If it's one thing I learned in statistics, it's that correlation does not equal causation. Seemingly Christian Mithraic customs are very often dated as appearing after, not before, the outset of Christianity. The "Lord's Supper" of both Mithraism and Christianity indeed finds its origins in another religion: Persian and Jewish customs (the Passover), respectively, not from one another. Almost all pagan parallels to Christianity originated after not before Christianity, so they could not be the origin of Christianity. These are only some of the explanations for the "copycat theory" alleged against Christianity. Gary Lease, an atheist and a professor of religion at UC Santa Cruz and a good friend of my family, even said that "after 100 years of unremitting labor, the conclusion appears inescapable that neither Mithraism nor Christianity proved to be an obvious and direct influence upon the other in the development and demise or survival of either."
Resurrection parallels are truly laughable when one considers them: Mystery gods came back to life amid vegetation cycles annually, not once for all in the way Jesus did. More importantly, Jesus' resurrection was a physical, historical, flesh-and-blood event. Pagan cults were a mere mythical drama cast in fantastic language. Notice the down-to-earth nature of the Gospels (as opposed to epic Greek myths).
When you look closely at alleged parallels (such as virgin birth, blood of the lamb, etc), differences do arise; most importantly, the fact that the God of Christianity is nothing like the gods of ancient religions. Looking closely at the parallels, really studying them and not resorting to the type of cursory glance typical of these splendid claims, really clears things up.
The book of Daniel, recorded in the Septuagint in the BC era, also prophecies the coming and rejection of Israel's Messiah (Jesus) in chapter 9. Daniel prophesies that 483 years from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem (which was destroyed by invading armies), the Messiah would be revealed to Israel and then "cut off," or killed. King Artaxerxes, who ruled from 465-425 BC, decreed that Jerusalem be rebuilt in his 20th year. 483 years later Jesus rode on a donkey into Jerusalem and revealed Himself as the Messiah, and then He was killed or "cut off" a few days later, just as the prophecy said hundreds of years ago.
And I obviously know that "you ARE here." That was the point of my original post, if you've forgotten. I've found, however, that the decline of religion has led to the slow slide of society. If one looks around, one can see more and more people motivated by selfish desires for the very reason that there is no God in their minds to hold them back or bring them judgment (notice the scruples of old borne of God-consciousness). Obviously there are some moral atheists, such as yourself, but the philosophy gives itself to moral degradation, and atheist Neitzsche recognized this, when he noted that the Western values of human rights and equality stem from Christian ideals in the equality of souls and the preciousness of human life in the eyes of God.
And now I'll stop, because I've went quite long already. Have a good night.
Reply
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