McCain said

Jun 03, 2008 20:45

"We must also prepare, far better than we have, to respond quickly and effectively to a natural calamity. When Americans confront a catastrophe they have a right to expect basic competence from their government. Firemen and policemen should be able to communicate with each other in an emergency. We should be able to deliver bottled water to ( Read more... )

mccain, republicans, katrina

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But... jdquintette June 4 2008, 20:14:18 UTC
...is not the Coastguard a federal agency.

The Mississippi Gulf Coast, which took the burnt of Katrina, responded well (or at least much much better) than the complete ineptitude shown by the City of New Orleans and State of Louisiana.

Apples and oranges. Much smaller population base affected (ie no big cities) and a different kind of damage (as in mostly wind, not flood).

Ultimiately, the question is of government efficacy, not necessarily political philosophyPrecisely. But which party's political philosophy, since the start of the first Reagan administration, has been that government is by it's very nature the enemy? It's the perfect Gingrichian strategy, insist that government is innefficient then, when elected, cut programs and appoint clueless bumblers to positions of authority until this becomes a self-fullfilling proficy ( ... )

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Re: But... jdquintette June 4 2008, 23:22:06 UTC
Getting a new license required four different trips to the DMV, about 12-15 hours, and a few hundred dollars. If you think that the ineffectiveness of government is a myth or a republican-crafted set of affiars, I would suggest a trip to the Department of Motor Vehicles.

Interesting. When I moved from British Columbia to Ontario in Canada in 1988, replacing my B.C. licence with an Ontario one required one trip the the DMV involving standing in line for 20 minutes and a fee of $30 dollars.

Secondly, the big government, welfare state approach has worked so well in Europe that both France and Germany now possess center-right governments committed to reforming and partially dismantling it. Gordon Brown is still hanging on, but by his fingernails, and "New Labor" isn't exactly Harold Wilson, if you know that I mean.Sure. Governments that are so 'center-right' that all three countries continue to provide state-subsidized, universal healthcare, massively subsidized, universally available daycare, and affordible public housing options ( ... )

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Re: But... jdquintette June 4 2008, 23:48:14 UTC
That last comment was tossed off on the fly. Let me try and make my position a little clearer.

I'm not an advocate for 'big government.' I'm an advocate for government that works. And I'm not willing to buy into catch-phrases like 'government isn't the solution, it's the problem,' or the idea that less government is always better unless I can see some kind of evidence they're not just empty slogans peddled by people who want to hand out tax cuts to their pals.

Certainly there are plenty of examples of bureaucracies, both public and private, that don't work. But there are also ones that do. I'm interested in finding out why that is and exploiting it, rather than engaging in the typical American passtime of repeating groundless platitudes and maintaining that there is nothing, ever, to be gained from looking into why some of these things work better in other countries than they do here. If that makes me 'close minded' then I plead guilty.

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the question of government efficacy infrogmation June 4 2008, 20:23:28 UTC
Actually, sending in truckloads of food, water, soldiers, medical aid, and other emergency supplies is something the US Federal Goverment has historically done fairly well. I have friends who still remember the long convoy that rolled in quickly after Hurricane Betsy during the LBJ administration. A few years later, Nixon mobilized the National Guard BEFORE Hurricane Camille even hit land in Mississippi. This used to be something understood by both Republicans and Democrats alike ( ... )

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Re: the question of government efficacy infrogmation June 6 2008, 01:54:56 UTC
When Andrew "clobbered" Baton Rouge, huge military convoys of trucks were heading towards South Florida. If Baton Rouge got "clobbered", by Andrew, Homestead Florida and nearby communites got... well, I don't know if there are violent enough words for how much beyond "clobbered" it was; I suppose "nuked" will have to do ( ... )

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Re: the question of government efficacy infrogmation June 9 2008, 00:33:37 UTC
No one "in authority"?

Who was left out of the loop, then? Cheney?

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p.s. jdquintette June 4 2008, 21:30:53 UTC
It just occured to me that your description of the federal government as not having sufficient flexibility or rapid deciscion making ability on the ground to make it effective in disaster management also makes it poorly equipped to wage war.

Perhaps downsizing the pentagon is the answer.

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Re: p.s. jdquintette June 4 2008, 23:56:21 UTC
I'm not sure about that. What you seem to be saying is "some federal enties (like tha armed forces) work well, and others (like HUD) don't." That pretty much a statement I'd agree with. But I don't think the answer is necessarily shrinking federal involvement.

"Only the US government could have built Cabrini Green."

Absolutely. But I agree for probably different reasons than you do. You doubtless feel public housing "doesn't work" whereas it does work in other parts of the western world. At least it works a hell of a lot better than Cabrini Green. You have to go to the third world to find that kind of squalor.

What doesn't work is the way we do some of these things. The world is bigger than America.

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Re: p.s. jdquintette June 5 2008, 16:21:37 UTC
I dunno. I've heard that the HLM zones on the outskirts of Paris are pretty hellish places... maybe they could easily give Cabrini a run for its money...Been there. Not even close. The level of violence and hopelessness in American housing projects is unsurpassed anywhere in the First World. The stats bear this out ( ... )

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Re: p.s. infrogmation June 6 2008, 14:14:29 UTC
"It's a form of learned helplessness masquerading as worldly cynicism."

Excellent analysis of the phenomenon well said. Kudos.

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