These days I'm a lot more cynical about my feelings on Ats, but I have been thinking recently that it would be worth re-watching seasons 3-5. Bts is by far my favourite of the two shows, but there are times when I feel like I've said pretty much all there is to say about Bts lol, while it might be interesting to see what I think of some of those Ats episodes all these years years later. For all that fans talk about how badly Bts has aged, I feel like Ats will have dated the worst of the two shows for me, just because it is so obsessed with man pain and I'm not sure that I'll have the patience for it these days! Especially when Buffy's pain was often dismissed as her needing to step up/get over herself, while anything with Angel and Wesley was always treated as being of the utmost gravitas
Also possibly unpopular? I really didn't care for Bat!Wes. At all. The whole thing just screamed of writer fantasy where the geeky guy turns super badass
I always feel like I should have been drawn in by Wesley's arc on paper, but the way they played it just didn't work for me at all. There was something about the character that I found really cold and self-righteous, and it always annoyed me as well that in season 2 and onwards Gunn and Wesley were able to fight demons as just regular humans, while the women were totally helpless (although I guess that there was Justine later on at least). But yeah it definitely felt like there was a lot of writer wish fulfilment going into Wesley's character, especially when you compare it to his origins when he couldn't fight at all and kept falling down all the time! Yeah characters change, but not usually *that* much, it all felt a bit O/T by the end
Especially when Buffy's pain was often dismissed as her needing to step up/get over herself, while anything with Angel and Wesley was always treated as being of the utmost gravitas
Oh, yeah. That's one of the more grating things about Buffy is that all trauma should be just gotten over because there are bigger fish to fry (like Willow having a boyfriend).
I fail to see how Buffy aged badly. Maybe S1. Mostly, I see people talk about the dialogue when they say that, but the "Buffyspeak" was toned down a lot in 4-7, which makes sense and let's not pretend Angel didn't use it too. That accompanied with "more mature". Things people can say but never have to actually supply evidence. Even the supposed shades of gray the show mentions, even though every time the characters compromise it leads to disaster.
season 2 and onwards Gunn and Wesley were able to fight demons as just regular humans,
Always bugged me.
And definitely agree about Wes. His arc seems to be angst for the sake of angst all while playing the victim. My friends abandoned me. Even on rewatch I fail to see what other outcome he expected even if his plan did work. You stole the guys kid, man.
Right! In the beginning of Bts it was presented as quite a challenge for the slayer herself to defeat even one vampire when she was fighting Luke, yet suddenly regular humans are able to take on a vampire with supernatural strength and come out on top? I suppose that both shows did always play a bit fast and loose with continuity in that respect though :P
And yeah, I think part of why I find it hard to like Wesley was because it was so clear that he saw himself as the noble and tragically wronged man. He was really milking it and wallowing in self-pity in late season 3, never mind what he *should* have been dwelling on, Angel's innocent baby being in a hell dimension because of Wesley
I suppose that both shows did always play a bit fast and loose with continuity in that respect though :P
I don't think Buffy did until Wood. Even in S6 it's shown that even the whole gang of Giles, Willow, Tara, Xander had trouble and they had Spike with them.
but there are times when I feel like I've said pretty much all there is to say about Bts lol
That's where I'm at, too, about BTVS. There are only so many times you can say the same thing. AtS still has some freshness to it. I don't think I've watched more than a couple eps back to back since around 2005.
Even reading other conversations about Buffy on places like Tumblr, I've often had the feeling that it's so talked out that people are forcing in wildly bizarre (IMO) reads just to have something different to talk about. Maybe it's just my entrenched thinking there, though.
Also possibly unpopular? I really didn't care for Bat!Wes. At all. The whole thing just screamed of writer fantasy where the geeky guy turns super badass
I always feel like I should have been drawn in by Wesley's arc on paper, but the way they played it just didn't work for me at all. There was something about the character that I found really cold and self-righteous, and it always annoyed me as well that in season 2 and onwards Gunn and Wesley were able to fight demons as just regular humans, while the women were totally helpless (although I guess that there was Justine later on at least). But yeah it definitely felt like there was a lot of writer wish fulfilment going into Wesley's character, especially when you compare it to his origins when he couldn't fight at all and kept falling down all the time! Yeah characters change, but not usually *that* much, it all felt a bit O/T by the end
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Especially when Buffy's pain was often dismissed as her needing to step up/get over herself, while anything with Angel and Wesley was always treated as being of the utmost gravitas
Oh, yeah. That's one of the more grating things about Buffy is that all trauma should be just gotten over because there are bigger fish to fry (like Willow having a boyfriend).
I fail to see how Buffy aged badly. Maybe S1. Mostly, I see people talk about the dialogue when they say that, but the "Buffyspeak" was toned down a lot in 4-7, which makes sense and let's not pretend Angel didn't use it too. That accompanied with "more mature". Things people can say but never have to actually supply evidence. Even the supposed shades of gray the show mentions, even though every time the characters compromise it leads to disaster.
season 2 and onwards Gunn and Wesley were able to fight demons as just regular humans,
Always bugged me.
And definitely agree about Wes. His arc seems to be angst for the sake of angst all while playing the victim. My friends abandoned me. Even on rewatch I fail to see what other outcome he expected even if his plan did work. You stole the guys kid, man.
Reply
Right! In the beginning of Bts it was presented as quite a challenge for the slayer herself to defeat even one vampire when she was fighting Luke, yet suddenly regular humans are able to take on a vampire with supernatural strength and come out on top? I suppose that both shows did always play a bit fast and loose with continuity in that respect though :P
And yeah, I think part of why I find it hard to like Wesley was because it was so clear that he saw himself as the noble and tragically wronged man. He was really milking it and wallowing in self-pity in late season 3, never mind what he *should* have been dwelling on, Angel's innocent baby being in a hell dimension because of Wesley
Reply
I suppose that both shows did always play a bit fast and loose with continuity in that respect though :P
I don't think Buffy did until Wood. Even in S6 it's shown that even the whole gang of Giles, Willow, Tara, Xander had trouble and they had Spike with them.
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but there are times when I feel like I've said pretty much all there is to say about Bts lol
That's where I'm at, too, about BTVS. There are only so many times you can say the same thing. AtS still has some freshness to it. I don't think I've watched more than a couple eps back to back since around 2005.
Even reading other conversations about Buffy on places like Tumblr, I've often had the feeling that it's so talked out that people are forcing in wildly bizarre (IMO) reads just to have something different to talk about. Maybe it's just my entrenched thinking there, though.
Reply
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