Have to admit, I read that, thought, bet the Bangels are going to run with it, and forgot about it. I mean, I don't like it, but in a way I'm just pleased to discover that Joss endorsed the season 10 Spuffy relationship, as I'm sure there are some out there convinced it's all been done behind his back and he would never go there.
If Gage does another Q&A on Slayalive, I might ask him what he meant, though he'll probably say he doesn't remember exactly what he said.
It's also possible that whoever transcribed the Q&A didn't include a lot of nuance that would have made it sound not as bad if you were there in person.
Oh, I dunno.
Actually, I've just realised that I may have misunderstood what you meant, and it's the fact that if Joss did say this then it means he doesn't consider season 7 Spuffy a 'relationship' that's bothering you.
All I can say to that is that given what Gage said in his Q&A after A&F :spit: 20, I get the feeling he doesn't really consider a relationship a proper relationship if it doesn't include sex, so it may well be that he just doesn't see season 7 Spuffy as a relationship at all.
Maybe I'll ask him about that in the next Q&A instead?
All I can say to that is that given what Gage said in his Q&A after A&F :spit: 20, I get the feeling he doesn't really consider a relationship a proper relationship if it doesn't include sex, so it may well be that he just doesn't see season 7 Spuffy as a relationship at all.
I don't really care what Gage thinks, to be honest. It's that a relationship with souled Spike would make her uncomfortable and Joss's apparent acceptance of it. 'Cause in the context of S7 and what he claimed we were supposed to be seeing there, it doesn't make a lick of sense that it would make her uncomfortable.
It also suggests they're going to go that ridiculous route that she's going to go into Spike's head and be appalled, possibly putting a strain/ending the relationship because of it. Again, absolutely stupid.
But more than anything it's another attempt at making S7 unhappen.
But more than anything it's another attempt at making S7 unhappen.
I do completely get that. I'll have to think of a way to frame the question for Gage in such a way as to find out if Joss really said that the way it sounds or not.
To be fair, I think that when most people say "relationship" they're thinking about a romantic relationship with a sexual component. S7 Spuffy wouldn't qualify for many people. (I know, Joss said it was romantic but not sexual, but I think Joss was just trying to have his cake and eat it too.)
I could see it making her incredibly uncomfortable, actually, because I don't think Buffy's really able to open up to anyone any longer. People keep saying "But they were like X in S7!" but it's been several years for the characters, and Buffy's been through even more crappy experiences, and going with the most charitable interpretation of her S8 actions, she was deeply hurt and angered by Spike not telling her he was back from the dead, and spent quite a while trying to convince herself and him that she didn't care any longer. And Spike's life hasn't been a walk in the park, either.
I still expect them to torpedo the relationship before the season ends, but I never expected the writers to allow them to get together at all. :P
To be fair, I think that when most people say "relationship" they're thinking about a romantic relationship with a sexual component
To be sure, but the sexual aspect of the Buffy/Spike relationship (or whatever you want to call S6/S7 and so far in S10) has never been much of an issue. I could understand it if that's where the discomfort comes from. They pretty well glossed over the sketchy area of S6 with the soul stuff earlier in S10. So...sex isn't the issue, apparently.
I mean, I don't even call anything on the show a relationship, but they were certainly comfortable and trusting with one another in S7. So in order for there to be discomfort, you'd have to forget that or...
and going with the most charitable interpretation of her S8 actions, she was deeply hurt and angered by Spike not telling her he was back from the dead,
Not even an interpretation. That's what happened. The only reason to think it didn't was it was so stupid, but it's never contradicted. She doesn't seem pissed or unsure about him not wanting her to know. Of course, we'd actually have to get her perspective, which is blank space since forever.
I still expect them to torpedo the relationship before the season ends, but I never expected the writers to allow them to get together at all. :P
Of course they will. I think they'll be toast by 20.
What I mean is, even if they were comfortable and trusting of one another in S7, there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, and neither of them can take up exactly where they left off. It's been too long, and too much has happened to both of them. The writers had to spend a lot of time this season just establishing that they were friendly with one another again, given the way Buffy's treated Spike for the last two seasons.
Honestly, 'uncomfortable' is so vague, and I'm not even sure how they're applying it. Does he mean that Buffy's made uncomfortable by the idea of giving Spike a shot? I think that's pretty believable, really -- like it or not, they do have a lot of history, and soul or no soul, that's got to give her pause. Hell, it should give Spike pause, too. Does it mean that Buffy's uncomfortable while IN a relationship with Spike? If so, why? Because he's a vampire? Because he steals the covers? I just don't know what Gage is even getting at.
there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, and neither of them can take up exactly where they left off. It's been too long, and too much has happened to both of them.
Oh, I know. In the story, though, none of that is mentioned. That's the story they should be telling or even the idea that it's been built up so much that the actuality can never live up to it. Instead we got a bunch of S6 references. Him not contacting her, her not trying to find him, Andrew, The Immortal stuff, all of it is forgotten.
I just don't know what Gage is even getting at.
From what I read, it was Whedon that said it, not Gage. Were it Gage, I'd just shrug. Of course at this point I should probably be shrugging Joss as well, but... Obviously I can't. And you're right, what's there to be uncomfortable about? From what I read, it's the idea of being in a relationship with souled Spike. That's my point, I guess. That's why I mentioned S7, not because they were in a relationship, but because she was alright with him then and nothing changed. He even quit smoking. Unless a male artist is drawing him.
If I were a writer taking over a story that had S8 in its background, I'd probably be tempted to forget as much of it as I could, too. :/
The thing is, I can think of legitimate reasons for Buffy to be uncomfortable. There's still the whole thing where she's going to age and Spike isn't. Blood breath is probably gross in the morning. They have opposite sleeping schedules, which I know from personal experience is hell. There are a lot of real problems that a vampire/Slayer couple faces, upon which any relationship could stumble. But none of that matters, because I just can't believe that Joss would ever approve a long term successful relationship between the two of them, and I doubt that anyone at Dark Horse can write that kind of relationship -- not because they're male, or comic book writers, but just because very few writers of any sort seem to be able to do that. So I feel like they're just being set up to fail from the outset, and it's hard for me to get worked up about anything Joss says because, well, Joss has zero interest in relationships except for the angst he can wring out of them. He wouldn't be doing this if it weren't going to end in tears.
There are a lot of real problems that a vampire/Slayer couple faces, upon which any relationship could stumble.
Oh, definitely. It's probably just the way I read it.
I suppose a large part of what bothers me is it strongly reinforces the idea they'll go the Cord-Jasmine/Angel route and it'll be "You did bad things, I can't be with you."
Nope. Wasn't horrible. That's probably because they sort of ripped the band-aid off real quick. They pretty much went from 0 to together in 2 issues. The meat of the story will be the breakup.
Which I'd lay a dollar or two as coming before the next tpb installment is over.
Of course if they go the Cord-Jasmine route, they'll might squish Bangel, too, since Angelus will probably be in the flashbacks doing horrible things with Spike.
Of course if they go the Cord-Jasmine route, they'll might squish Bangel, too, since Angelus will probably be in the flashbacks doing horrible things with Spike.
Here's hoping.
Which is a mean thing to say, but no one of the Bangel persuasion has said or done anything lately to make me feel charitable.
Which is a mean thing to say, but no one of the Bangel persuasion has said or done anything lately to make me feel charitable.
Turnabout is fair play. They're acting like Spuffies 5 years ago. Of course, the opposite is true, too. Bangel stans got their fanfic then. Spike/Spuffy fans are getting their fanfic now. The dynamic is ripped from so many fics where Spike has every powerbase, up to and including her friends. The crowing, it grates.
Present company excluded, of course, since probably no one reading this is one of those annoying fans, but I can't say as I'll feel sorry when they get blown out.
Maybe Gage and co think the best thing to do to get people to shut up about it is just to go ahead, do it and get it over with?
I think they just saw it as the last remaining fanbase. It's pretty clear from S8 and S9 it wasn't a story they were interested in. And reading Joss's comment on it just suggests to me that's really all it is: Giving fans what they want and taking it away, just like S8.
Which is why all the 'just like the show' comments bug me 'cause it isn't any more than that was.
If Gage does another Q&A on Slayalive, I might ask him what he meant, though he'll probably say he doesn't remember exactly what he said.
It's also possible that whoever transcribed the Q&A didn't include a lot of nuance that would have made it sound not as bad if you were there in person.
Oh, I dunno.
Actually, I've just realised that I may have misunderstood what you meant, and it's the fact that if Joss did say this then it means he doesn't consider season 7 Spuffy a 'relationship' that's bothering you.
All I can say to that is that given what Gage said in his Q&A after A&F :spit: 20, I get the feeling he doesn't really consider a relationship a proper relationship if it doesn't include sex, so it may well be that he just doesn't see season 7 Spuffy as a relationship at all.
Maybe I'll ask him about that in the next Q&A instead?
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I don't really care what Gage thinks, to be honest. It's that a relationship with souled Spike would make her uncomfortable and Joss's apparent acceptance of it. 'Cause in the context of S7 and what he claimed we were supposed to be seeing there, it doesn't make a lick of sense that it would make her uncomfortable.
It also suggests they're going to go that ridiculous route that she's going to go into Spike's head and be appalled, possibly putting a strain/ending the relationship because of it. Again, absolutely stupid.
But more than anything it's another attempt at making S7 unhappen.
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I do completely get that. I'll have to think of a way to frame the question for Gage in such a way as to find out if Joss really said that the way it sounds or not.
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I could see it making her incredibly uncomfortable, actually, because I don't think Buffy's really able to open up to anyone any longer. People keep saying "But they were like X in S7!" but it's been several years for the characters, and Buffy's been through even more crappy experiences, and going with the most charitable interpretation of her S8 actions, she was deeply hurt and angered by Spike not telling her he was back from the dead, and spent quite a while trying to convince herself and him that she didn't care any longer. And Spike's life hasn't been a walk in the park, either.
I still expect them to torpedo the relationship before the season ends, but I never expected the writers to allow them to get together at all. :P
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To be fair, I think that when most people say "relationship" they're thinking about a romantic relationship with a sexual component
To be sure, but the sexual aspect of the Buffy/Spike relationship (or whatever you want to call S6/S7 and so far in S10) has never been much of an issue. I could understand it if that's where the discomfort comes from. They pretty well glossed over the sketchy area of S6 with the soul stuff earlier in S10. So...sex isn't the issue, apparently.
I mean, I don't even call anything on the show a relationship, but they were certainly comfortable and trusting with one another in S7. So in order for there to be discomfort, you'd have to forget that or...
and going with the most charitable interpretation of her S8 actions, she was deeply hurt and angered by Spike not telling her he was back from the dead,
Not even an interpretation. That's what happened. The only reason to think it didn't was it was so stupid, but it's never contradicted. She doesn't seem pissed or unsure about him not wanting her to know. Of course, we'd actually have to get her perspective, which is blank space since forever.
I still expect them to torpedo the relationship before the season ends, but I never expected the writers to allow them to get together at all. :P
Of course they will. I think they'll be toast by 20.
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Honestly, 'uncomfortable' is so vague, and I'm not even sure how they're applying it. Does he mean that Buffy's made uncomfortable by the idea of giving Spike a shot? I think that's pretty believable, really -- like it or not, they do have a lot of history, and soul or no soul, that's got to give her pause. Hell, it should give Spike pause, too. Does it mean that Buffy's uncomfortable while IN a relationship with Spike? If so, why? Because he's a vampire? Because he steals the covers? I just don't know what Gage is even getting at.
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there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, and neither of them can take up exactly where they left off. It's been too long, and too much has happened to both of them.
Oh, I know. In the story, though, none of that is mentioned. That's the story they should be telling or even the idea that it's been built up so much that the actuality can never live up to it. Instead we got a bunch of S6 references. Him not contacting her, her not trying to find him, Andrew, The Immortal stuff, all of it is forgotten.
I just don't know what Gage is even getting at.
From what I read, it was Whedon that said it, not Gage. Were it Gage, I'd just shrug. Of course at this point I should probably be shrugging Joss as well, but... Obviously I can't. And you're right, what's there to be uncomfortable about? From what I read, it's the idea of being in a relationship with souled Spike. That's my point, I guess. That's why I mentioned S7, not because they were in a relationship, but because she was alright with him then and nothing changed. He even quit smoking. Unless a male artist is drawing him.
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The thing is, I can think of legitimate reasons for Buffy to be uncomfortable. There's still the whole thing where she's going to age and Spike isn't. Blood breath is probably gross in the morning. They have opposite sleeping schedules, which I know from personal experience is hell. There are a lot of real problems that a vampire/Slayer couple faces, upon which any relationship could stumble. But none of that matters, because I just can't believe that Joss would ever approve a long term successful relationship between the two of them, and I doubt that anyone at Dark Horse can write that kind of relationship -- not because they're male, or comic book writers, but just because very few writers of any sort seem to be able to do that. So I feel like they're just being set up to fail from the outset, and it's hard for me to get worked up about anything Joss says because, well, Joss has zero interest in relationships except for the angst he can wring out of them. He wouldn't be doing this if it weren't going to end in tears.
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There are a lot of real problems that a vampire/Slayer couple faces, upon which any relationship could stumble.
Oh, definitely. It's probably just the way I read it.
I suppose a large part of what bothers me is it strongly reinforces the idea they'll go the Cord-Jasmine/Angel route and it'll be "You did bad things, I can't be with you."
Which is dumb.
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Word. What she said.
Especially about the being set up to fail thing.
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Me neither. I'm still kind of reeling that they went there. And that it wasn't...horrible.
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Nope. Wasn't horrible. That's probably because they sort of ripped the band-aid off real quick. They pretty much went from 0 to together in 2 issues. The meat of the story will be the breakup.
Which I'd lay a dollar or two as coming before the next tpb installment is over.
Of course if they go the Cord-Jasmine route, they'll might squish Bangel, too, since Angelus will probably be in the flashbacks doing horrible things with Spike.
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Here's hoping.
Which is a mean thing to say, but no one of the Bangel persuasion has said or done anything lately to make me feel charitable.
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Which is a mean thing to say, but no one of the Bangel persuasion has said or done anything lately to make me feel charitable.
Turnabout is fair play. They're acting like Spuffies 5 years ago. Of course, the opposite is true, too. Bangel stans got their fanfic then. Spike/Spuffy fans are getting their fanfic now. The dynamic is ripped from so many fics where Spike has every powerbase, up to and including her friends. The crowing, it grates.
Present company excluded, of course, since probably no one reading this is one of those annoying fans, but I can't say as I'll feel sorry when they get blown out.
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Maybe Gage and co think the best thing to do to get people to shut up about it is just to go ahead, do it and get it over with?
Tiptoeing around the issue while the Spuffy section of fans gets more and more frustrated doesn't really get anyone anywhere.
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Maybe Gage and co think the best thing to do to get people to shut up about it is just to go ahead, do it and get it over with?
I think they just saw it as the last remaining fanbase. It's pretty clear from S8 and S9 it wasn't a story they were interested in. And reading Joss's comment on it just suggests to me that's really all it is: Giving fans what they want and taking it away, just like S8.
Which is why all the 'just like the show' comments bug me 'cause it isn't any more than that was.
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