Gender roles
Now, this is... a bit of a tricky topic, so let me preface it by saying that I absolutely love the movie, okay? But it does rely on some pretty strict gender roles in a lot of ways.
For a start: Well. Let's look at a theoretical woman. You realize that in her dreams, she's being stalked by someone who appears to be her husband. Her mental ( Read more... )
For a start: Well. Let's look at a theoretical woman. You realize that in her dreams, she's being stalked by someone who appears to be her husband. Her mental ( Read more... )
I don't think your criticism should be reduced or anything like that, but it really isn't something Nolan is alone is - perhaps he should be scrutinised more because he is a very good story teller and his female characters are reduced to plot devices when left in his hands and I've seen almost all his movies and not one female character has as much (or any) agency as a male character.
But looking at the dynamics between the characters in Inception you'd also have a totally different movie if you did an actual Gender Swap:
Cobb would be a mother who abandoned her children, the stigma there is much harsher than with an absent father.
Arthur wouldn't be aloof and charming, she'd be an ice-queen.
Eames would be called a slut, because a woman who behaves like he did in the movie, casually flirty and overtly sexual, yeah, "slut".
And the sexy banter between Arthur and Eames would either be ignored (because femmslash doesn't grab people as much as slash) or be reduced to female competitiveness and bitching.
Saito would be a cut throat bitch.
Fischer would be a pathetic indecisive unsuitable for business due to her feminine sensitivity...
You see what I'm saying?
And that's just all the men turned to woman and that's being "faithful" to the characters, because the same behaviour in women is standardised differently in men and vice versa.
So yes, Nolan relies of the gender of his characters in order to tell a story and in Nolan the gender disparity is pretty big, but it's not something special to Nolan's style.
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I'm not quite sure what your point is by bringing up the gender-flipped versions of the characters. Are you trying to say that the movie wouldn't be good if we switched the genders? Because I don't think that would be the case at all. Elements would look very different, but I don't think they're the ones you're describing. I think the movie (although excellent) would be significantly improved by challenging gender stereotypes, and I think female versions of the protagonists would be absolutely fascinating. Distinctly feminist, too, since it would give us a cast of flawed but sympathetic, expert women, most of them dedicated to their professions and happy that way. Certainly I'd say that's how the guys were presented in canon.
Cobb would be a mother fighting to return to her children; I think she might actually gain some sympathy there, not lose it.
Girl!Arthur would be a businesslike and professional woman focused on her job, but very much happy that way. She wouldn't be entirely icy, either; kissing (boy?)Ariadne, having fun showing Ariadne around the dreamworld, et cetera. Also, the rotating hallway fight scene would shoot her right up there among the top action heroines, no sweat.
Girl!Eames would be an independent woman unashamed of her own sexuality and thoroughly in control of it, but not defined by it, and extraordinarily competent (planning the heist, the hospital fight scene). The film neither defines Eames by his sexuality nor shames him for it; if we're being 'faithful' to it in this hypothetical situation, then that would carry over to girl!Eames.) I think Hollywood really needs that kind of character, particularly because there's so much slut-shaming in the industry and in the world.
On the subject of the banter, it could definitely come off as more competitive given the expectation for women to be rivals. On the other hand, that would definitely be balanced out by Girl!Arthur's friendship with and dedication to Mrs. Cobb. (Eames's implied admiration of Yusuf, and definite respect, would also help there.)
Speaking of which, you seem to have forgotten about Yusuf. Wouldn't Girl!Yusuf be cool? She'd be an intelligent, tough woman with her own business and a passion for a challenge, able to think and work fast under fire and develop hugely complicated experimental chemical compounds. (And, also, of Indian descent.) She'd be awesome.
Ms. Saito would definitely have a cutthroat side, but she would be a tough, determined woman at the top of a male-dominated field, happy and fulfilled as a professional, confident and still in possession of a sense of humor. (The canonical Saito does have one: "Need a lift, Mr. Cobb?", teasing Eames back about the 'no room for tourists' thing.) Again, I'd love to see that kind of character, really.
The Fischers would be a slightly trickier issue, but doesn't Robert Fischer stay in business at the end of the film? And even if not, assuming we'd be switching all the genders, we'd still have three very capable businesswomen: Saito, Browning, and Fischer Sr. (Granted, those last two aren't sympathetic, but they're still very, very good at what they do.) Further, it would take only a very little bit of tweaking to turn that plotline into a story with the central idea that there are as many ways to be a feminist as there are women. That, I think, is an important message to get out.
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I don't think I'd want to see all of them except Cobb gender-flipped, though. It'd be more interesting if it was only some of them, and keep Ariadne as a girl. I'd like to see how it would be with having both Ariadne and at least one strong female among the experienced members. The effect would be best with girl!Arthur, I imagine. I would enjoy seeing that, to be honest.
Which makes me think of something else. You said elsewhere that A/E wouldn't have exploded as much had they both been women. What if it was a het pairing? As strong or not? Which of them do you think would be most likely to be the female character?
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I kind of want to see all of them gender-flipped, including Cobb and the ladies we did have, but every different version is interesting. And I'd definitely be happy with anything that let a lady do something as awesome and innovative as the variable-gravity hallway fight.
As a het pairing... that's trickier. I think if Eames were a guy, Arthur were a girl, and nothing else changed, Eames would come off as a sexist, condescending jackass (the bickering in the warehouse, the grenade launcher moment - definitely the grenade launcher moment! - even the "go to sleep, Mr. Eames" scene might look more like questioning her ability to do her job. On the other hand, I'm not sure it would be too hard to amend that a bit; alter the delivery of a few lines, have him hand her the grenade launcher rather than use it himself, maybe shift the dialogue a little bit in the hotel scene, and pfft. Maybe. I'd have to rewatch a few scenes. (I have to say, if they did manage to make it look like mutual needling overlaying real, serious respect - HELLO THAR SHIP.)
Girl!Eames/Arthur runs into a whole other set of problems. Again, the fact that they do both condescend to each other changes a lot of things when you bring male privilege into play with only one of them, although it's less dramatic here. At the same time, fandom very rarely reacts well to a guy being actively pursued by a woman. Again, it would require a bit of a shift in the script to take off, a little more overt reciprocation (or moments easily read as such) from Arthur.
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I've seen both women I mentioned in a couple of things, and they're good. I could see either one of them pulling off girl!Yusuf, though Parminder Nagra might have it easier since she was a doctor on ER.
Yeah, either way a het pairing with the two of them has its issues. I could see them making it a bit of a dynamic not unlike that of Ziva and Tony from the show NCIS, or maybe Castle and Beckett from the show Castle. I'm trying to think of other examples and failing just now... :/ These are more if it was girl!Arthur/Eames, admittedly, though I could see many similarities between girl!Eames and Ziva. Just not many between Arthur and Tony.
You'd probably have to go with a slightly more lighthearted element to the sarcasm, though whichever one is the girl would probably have a little more freedom to be condescending. Double standards go both ways, after all.
I kinda want to write girl!Arthur/Eames now, also for the sake of A/A friendship with that dynamic, and Ariadne still being a girl. I think I'd have a harder time working Eames as a girl since I find Arthur easier to write in general. But I also want to try Saito and/or Yusuf as a girl. Hmm... What is with this fandom and trying to break down nearly all my writing boundaries?!?!
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I sadly know nothing about either NCIS or Castle except that the former is a forensic drama, so I can't really comment on that.
I think yes, the sarcasm would have to be a bit more clearly playful, but that would matter less than making it clear that each knows that the other is amazing at what they do. Eames's matter-of-fact "Oh, she's the best," would probably do quite a bit for that, if he were the un-genderbent one.
What is with this fandom and trying to break down nearly all my writing boundaries?!?!
I know! So far it's driven me into unreliable narrators (well, helped me improve that,) ensemble fics, pairings that I only half-ship, reinterpretation after reinterpretation... Oddly enough this is way less confusing than when Squeenix fandoms were dragging me into polyamory and higher-rated fics.
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Castle/Beckett... This might help a little, though Eames is not as much of a goof. Not hardly. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWD_Ciq0Xxk&feature=related)
I also thought of Michael and Fiona from Burn Notice, though that would be more Arthur/girl!Eames, I think.
A bit more mutual respect shown more obviously would help, and maybe also tweaking the tone of the hotel scene so it sounds like concern rather than lack of faith. (Which I think it kind of does anyway, but it's up to interpretation.)
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BWAHAHA I think I have another potential girl!Arthur casting here.
I think more mutual respect would actually help me ship them more in general; I think there is that there in canon, but they're both too prickly (and too proud) to admit it to each other. And I think in-canon the hotel scene does sound a lot more like concern, and I think Eames does trust Arthur, but it does seem to annoy Arthur a bit even in canon, and the gender dynamic might exacerbate that a bit.
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Stana Katic certainly does work as a potential girl!Arthur, though for some reason I kinda like Olivia Wilde too. Wrong eye color, though. And she's blonde a lot... :/
I agree that they're both too damn stubborn and proud to admit it. Which makes me want to slam their heads together (I kind of do, in various ways, fic-wise). What actually gets me shipping them is the snark - I've been in love with snarky duos for a long time.
The hotel scene is actually the one that made me ship them, and not "darling". It seemed to be the only scene where they were even close to honesty without too much defense - I didn't get much of an annoyed vibe out of Arthur there, for whatever reason.
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Yusef struck me as a little bit of a geeky kind of person, very good at what he does but also a bit out of touch with some things and very into his own headspace. And probably someone who tested their own compounds....
Interesting discussion is interesting! Girl!Arthur all buttoned up in a power suit makes my heart pitter-pat.
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HAHA Yusuf totally tests his (or her, in altverse) own compounds. (I'm personally fond of the bit of fanon that Eames helps.) And I get what you mean about being sort of a nutty-professor type; certainly he completely loves his job.
*blush* Re: discussion, thank you!
And yeah, Girl!Arthur is all other kinds of interesting.
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Yeah, i don't much care for the...i dunno...*meaness* implied in the original comment, as if no one making movies is capable of seeing women in any other way, or that we are, either.
Eames can help. That would be interesting. They totally used to get stoned and get the munchies. :)
*lurks mooar*
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More like, you know, these characters would automatically turn into horrible characters just because they were women... yeah, I don't think that's a feminist sentiment there.
Eames and Yusuf totally had all kinds of stoned antics going on. Also, Mr. Hardy made some very... interesting choices in line delivery when Eames first brings Yusuf up, so I'm not quite sure what's going on there but I doubt it's innocent.
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Heeee. I want stoned!Eames & Yusef utterly scandalizing Arthur. Oh yes.
I have to confess i found the movie...um...extremely tedious at times, and have only seen it once so i can't say yes or no. I am, however, going to dl a copy as soon as possible and re-watch every second of arthur/eams interaction. And other bits. Mostly i'm going to fast foward past Cobb and his angst and eternal shock at seeing Mal, heh, and concentrate on BOYS.
*don't get me wrong - the concept of the movie is awesome. criminals who steal stuff from your head? dreamers who make up whole worlds to trick you? utterly awesome. I just didn't click with the delivery all the time.*
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