Speculation and discussion

Apr 09, 2009 08:39


Yourlibrarian and threecatmama brought a question to my attention recently: what happened to Sam's visions?  I have a hypothesis...

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isaacsapphire April 10 2009, 09:08:16 UTC
I thought it was pretty clear that the YED had selected them specifically because they had innate abilities. The baby in "Salvation" apparently has psychic powers *before* the YED has done anything to her. He similarly seems to recognize something in Mary in "In the Beginning", again no demon blood necessary.

Even the Bible supports the idea that believing an act to be evil makes it evil for those who so believe; eg. if you think it's immoral to eat animals, it would be wrong for you to eat meat, regardless of whether it actually is immoral to eat animals.

Unlike all the other children, Sam would have immediately recognized a dream of a yellow-eyed man for what it was. Ava didn't seem to be too likely to go for the taking over the world thing, what with the wedding and all, so direct contact probably wouldn't have done much good in her case either. If the visions were YED-sent, I'd guess that Ava's visions had more to do with keeping Sam in one piece and getting Gordon to stop culling the kids before the demon got a chance to test them.

Of course, this theory does demand that there was some benefit for the YED to have Sam go home and meet his mother's ghost (or, alternatively, that there was a benefit in having Mary's ghost laid to rest. Presumably the YED was the main thing she was pissed at.)

And depending on how you're counting them, Sam's last vision was in Cold Oaks when the YED told him directly what was going on.

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impulsiveanswer April 11 2009, 14:11:55 UTC
Of course, this theory does demand that there was some benefit for the YED to have Sam go home and meet his mother's ghost (or, alternatively, that there was a benefit in having Mary's ghost laid to rest. Presumably the YED was the main thing she was pissed at.)

My point exactly - almost none of Sam's visions benefited the YED in any way (and the one in Salvation actually interrupted him and put his life in danger).

And depending on how you're counting them, Sam's last vision was in Cold Oaks when the YED told him directly what was going on.

I personally don't count the Cold Oaks dream as a true vision, just like I don't count the YED dreams that Webber and Scott had as visions. These were about the YED talking to them directly, trying to corrupt them by twisting their desires, fears, and guilt. It wasn't anything like Sam's "normal" visions.

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isaacsapphire April 11 2009, 17:32:39 UTC
The vision in "Salvation" is the big kicker. The YED almost got killed there and his plans for Rosie were messed up. It wouldn't make much sense for him to have been the one to send that vision.

Also, Missouri and Pamela's powers aren't seen as evil; both use them to assist the Winchesters and no one so much as questions their morality.

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etoile444 April 15 2009, 15:13:01 UTC
that's always been a big issue for me too! Why is it ok for Pam and Missouri to be psychic, but Sam is evil? Is it because everyone misunderstands his powers and attributes them to Azazel rather than thinking he'd been born with them?

Isaacsapphire: you make a good point, maybe Azazel didn't send Sam the vision of Rosie?

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isaacsapphire April 16 2009, 04:59:11 UTC
I'd say that Azazel didn't send that vision (and probably not any of them), unless he was a lot stupider then the evidence suggests.

A cynical part of me wants to say that what makes it ok for Pam and Missouri to be psychic and not Sam is that they're women and Sam's a guy. There are a lot of traditions that hold that it's all fine and dandy for women to use "magic" but it's taboo for males to.

And yeah, there does seem to be an issue with assuming that Sam's abilities are 100% demonic in origin. Even Sam at his most positive views his abilities as a lemons that can be made into lemonade.

Rosie clearly had powers without the demon touching her. But then again, Rosie was a girl.

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