Predestination, Free Will, Honesty, and the Signifcance of Triumph

Apr 06, 2009 12:19


Spoilers through 4.18.

Predestination, Free Will, Honesty, and the Significance of Triumph

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supernatural, meta, dean, sam

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redrikki April 7 2009, 00:02:53 UTC
I'd been kicking these sort of ideas in my head since the show, and I think you encapsulated pretty much what I was thinking in this meta. You made some very fine points here that I hadn't really considered and the use of the song was very well done.

The thing that really struck me about the concept of destiny and prophecy as shown in the episode was this old Buffy quote about prophecy being a tricky thing. Chuck's visions, much like Sam's, seemed to be flashes of random events without any context. Chuck is able to fill them in enough to write a story, but that is based on a mix of conjecture and imagination, as evidenced by the whole fire-y demonic passion thing. Plus, there are things he doesn't see, like Dean coming to get him. He thinks he knows how the story ends because he caught a glimpse of, but, in reality, he's just jumping in in the middle.

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datenshiblue April 7 2009, 13:24:52 UTC
he knows how the story ends because he caught a glimpse of, but, in reality, he's just jumping in in the middle.

This! Very excellent observation!

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impulsiveanswer April 7 2009, 14:37:37 UTC
Chuck is able to fill them in enough to write a story, but that is based on a mix of conjecture and imagination, as evidenced by the whole fire-y demonic passion thing.

Chuck's written prophecies are indeed based on a very human interpretation of what seem to be disjointed dreams that, until this episode, he never really understood (I wonder if he'll rewrite the whole Sam/Lilith hookup now that it hasn't happened). Just like not adding in the part about the demon blood, he's taking liberties with how to present his visions and might not be as reliable a narrator as the angels are making him out to be.

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datenshiblue April 7 2009, 23:43:43 UTC
I'll go you one better. By exercising editorial restraint, he's had an effect on events. If the demon blood had been in the manuscripts, the angels would know about it. And so would Dean, now. That could substantially change things.

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impulsiveanswer April 8 2009, 13:17:32 UTC
Excellent point! He was never a dispassionate chronicler because he cared about the characters even when he thought they were fictional (like leaving out the demon blood because he thought readers would judge Sam for it). Now that he's met them, interacted with them, and risked his life for them he's going to be even more emotionally involved and staying out of the story is going to be very hard for him.

Here's a question: Zachariah threatened Chuck when he wanted to warn the boys, but would Zachariah actually harm a prophet if he did it anyway? And would an archangel protect Chuck by killing another angels?

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datenshiblue April 8 2009, 16:18:34 UTC
I actually thought about this, and what Zachariah says is, I'll stop you.

He doesn't have to kill or harm Chuck to stop him. He could knock out the phone, make Chuck mute, restrain him in some way that doesn't repvent him from having visions and writing them on the computer.

Which is grim, which is probably why Chuck didn't push it.

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