Death Takes a Holiday
Just a list of things I've been thinking about since the new episode last night that I need to get out of my head before family obligations take me away from internet access for the weekend. You are now officially warned for spoilers:
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I don't think things are nearly as simple as they once were and that includes Sam and his take on Dean.
Ah, but that's exactly my point. Sam is a much more withdrawn and complex creature to figure out than he was back at Season 1 when was sharing and caring. Sam keeps everything close to the vest, including his emotions, but as you stated, the reasons for his actions all stem back to losing Dean and not wanting to go through that again.
I think that this has been the case since after the Groundhog Day, not since after Dean's deal coming due. After all, Sam was willing to sacrifice a virgin post Groundhog Day. I don't think his motive in that was anything but saving Dean.
As for Sam's perspective on Dean as a concept, I don't necessarily agree. I think that Sam's desire to protect Dean is showing itself in the same way that Dean's desire to protect Sam did. Dean protected Sam by taking the risks and taking charge. Sam is trying to do the same now, and it's resulting in a power struggle.
Dean wants Sam to stop using his powers so that Sam will be safe. He's frustrated with Sam for not doing that.
Sam wants Dean to take a back seat in the fight to get Lilith and stop the apocalypse. Why? Lilith can take Dean out with one burst of flashy white power. Sam knows he's safe from that, but he can't protect Dean from it if Dean is fighting right beside him. What if on Halloween Sam hadn't taken point and gone after Samhain? What if he'd given in to Dean and stayed behind to protect the kids? Dean would've been blown away by Samhain. Maybe the angels would've brought him back again, but Sam can't put Dean's life at risk on that maybe. He also can't risk that Dean might go back to hell, even for a short time, until the angels got around to resurrecting him. It's never been stated whether or not Dean's safe from Lilith's deal now that Castiel retrieved him. He could be going right back down again on his next death.
Sam saying that Dean is holding him back, that Dean isn't strong enough, smart enough, good enough to stick with Sam?
Dean *is* holding Sam back. He's admitted it many times. He doesn't want Sam risking his life on hunts and he doesn't want Sam risking his soul by using his demon powers. He wants to continue to hold Sam back. Sam's frustrated by this just as Dean's frustrated by Sam's fighting against being held back.
Sam never said Dean isn't good enough to stick with Sam. He said that he's the stronger hunter because Dean is scared of going up against the demons Sam wants to fight. Again, true. Not nice. Not anything Sam would say if he wasn't being influenced, but like Tessa said, humans lie to themselves, and like Dean said to Cole we're all scared. Dean has been to hell. It's still just a concept to Sam.
Dean needs some stability and a chance to recover from Hell and find his footing again - and he's obviously not getting that with Sam.
Dude, Dean needs time, I agree. I just don't think Sam is the problem with that. If he splits from Sam, he's still got angels and demons after him to get involved. He probably could have split from Sam prior to the angels coming out of the woodwork, but now he's got some powerful entities pushing him just as much as the demons have been pushing Sam since Azazel first killed Jess.
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Ah, but that's exactly my point. Sam is a much more withdrawn and complex creature to figure out than he was back at Season 1 when was sharing and caring.
Someone made the point that the Sam we're seeing now (darker, somewhat more selfish, less inclined to want to discuss feelings or care about other people's opinions) is less a new Sam as it is a reversion to the pre-series!Sam, who we saw flashes of in season 1 but who was mostly subsumed in a deserve to avenge Jessica. This being the Sam who left Dean and John behind to pursue 'normal', the Sam who didn't bother to call or check in for at least two years (given the interactions between Sam and Dean in the pilot, the whole "I haven't asked you for anything for two years" and all that, it really implies to me that this was Sam's choice, not Dean's). Point being that Sam has always had this hint of aloofness running through him and an ability to leave his family that we haven't seen from John or Dean.
Which isn't to say that Sam doesn't love his family, he does, heartbreakingly, and many of his actions are flavored out of consideration for them, but Sam is the one we consistently see moving to stand alone, even if it means leaving others potentially vulnerable. He left Dean in Scarecrow (though he did immediately come back when he realized Dean was in trouble), he left again in Hunted (if I'm remembering my episodes right), both times entirely of his own free will. And he's been leaving in the fourth season repeatedly as well, sneaking out in the night to do his thing with Ruby, not even bothering to tell Dean that he's on his own.
Then the thing with the Siren - when he talked about Dean holding him back (and more on your comments on this in a bit because I really liked them), it highlighted that Sam doesn't want Dean around. And honestly, I could put a lot more faith in Sam's actions towards protecting Dean if I got a hint that he was concerned about Dean's general well being as a whole. But from the start of season four, we really haven't had that sort of connection; we had The Hug, but Sam, having miraculously had his brother returned to him, lied by omission to Dean in the very same scene, then outright lied later on and, rather than spending any stretch of time making sure Dean was actually okay (Dean never being one to actually admit to having any problems), Sam left him alone, while Dean was asleep, no less. And that was just in 4x01; his actions haven't been any more seemingly concerned throughout the entire season; even when he asks Dean about Hell, it's almost like something he's throwing in Dean's face to get him to stop asking about Sam's use of his powers.
All of this suggests that Dean's safety isn't tantamount to Sam. It's right up there, but it's not his main, driving goal. Sam can say that it is, and I think it once was, but it feels more like a white lie he's telling himself to feel better about what he's really doing, which is the same thing that Pamela told him off for.
I think that Sam's desire to protect Dean is showing itself in the same way that Dean's desire to protect Sam did. Dean protected Sam by taking the risks and taking charge. Sam is trying to do the same now, and it's resulting in a power struggle.
This is a concept that I really like, but its not one that I can fully get behind. Sam isn't treating Dean like someone who needs protection, he's treating him like a sidekick. I blame Sam's long stint alone for this; for the first time, Sam called all the shots in regards to hunting, and furthermore, he had Ruby falling his orders like a good little soldier. I think he got used to being fully in command and very, very much unused to people questioning his decisions.
(And apparently because I'm far, far too wordy for my own good, this has to be broken into two parts. Seriously, I wouldn't blame you at all if you TLDR me as a result.)
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Or perhaps this is a case where we're both right; Sam thinks he knows best, so he expects Dean to follow his lead and by doing so, Sam will be able to keep Dean safe. However, the way he's doing this is belittling and dismissive.
What if on Halloween Sam hadn't taken point and gone after Samhain? What if he'd given in to Dean and stayed behind to protect the kids?
My point here is that Sam didn't bother to try anything else. He knew what he had to do and went with it, whole-heartedly. He didn't even bother to see what, if any, other options were available and if nothing else, they had two angels in reserve that could have been called on for back up. But Sam didn't even think - he went with his gut, which was to use his powers - breaking his promise to Dean and acting against the explicit warning of the angels in the process.
I do agree though that Sam went after Samhain because he viewed it as the greater threat, the one that he, Sam, was better equipped to handle. And in that, yes, he was acting to protect Dean.
Sam never said Dean isn't good enough to stick with Sam.
No, but he sure implied it a lot. First he removed Dean's need to stay with Sam (by besmirching Dean's skills as a hunter), then he implies that Sam doesn't want Dean around (because Dean is holding him back and Sam can accomplish more without him). It's not that he's saying that Sam is being forced to protect Sam; the undercurrent is that Sam wants Dean away so that Sam can go off and get the job done. I think he only meant as a temporary measure, that he'd like Dean packed off somewhere nice and safe while Sam defeats Lilith, but he didn't say that and I highly doubt that's what Dean heard.
Dean *is* holding Sam back.
Oh, absolutely Dean is holding Sam back. Dean would do just about anything to protect Sam, including going back to Hell, and it's not like he's limiting his protection to Sam's physical body. Dean, more than anyone, has reason to understand why it's important to keep your soul in a good standing; as you mentioned, Sam doesn't and can't get that, having never experienced Hell before.
This is perhaps Dean's biggest failing, in that he's never been able to articulate to Sam why he has such a problem with what Sam's doing. I think he could have done it earlier, but the method he selected (the whole 'if I didn't know you, I'd want to hunt you' thing) came off as black and white, with Dean refuses to even consider, or look at, any possible benefits that the powers could bring. Sam was right to retort that his powers meant that demonic victims occasionally survived; Dean, however, should have responded with "and this is why we have exorcisms" but did not, thus weakening his argument and making him seem petty, which he's not. Dean has many reasons to be distrustful of Sam's powers, but he could have brought them up before but didn't, and now, well, Sam's not exactly listening.
He probably could have split from Sam prior to the angels coming out of the woodwork, but now he's got some powerful entities pushing him just as much as the demons have been pushing Sam since Azazel first killed Jess.
I'm not quite sure what you meant by this, so I'll have to ask for clarification. Dean wouldn't have left Sam before the angels introduced themselves; he's only been driven to that point, imho, following S&V, and it's only now that I could see it being at all a good idea. I don't think canon would go for it, but I do believe it would allow Dean a chance to ground himself, and that's something he's needed for a while.
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