Thoughts on last week's Torchwood

[iceshade]

First off, as of last week, my new policy on Torchwood is: I refuse to watch it until I know what's actually going to happen beforehand. I was massively triggered by episode 4x05 even though I knew what to expect, and I can't go through that again. I will put any spoilers under a cut, of course, however there is no longer such a thing as spoiling

Comments

[_thirty2flavors]

I'm not Jewish and have no personal triggers or connections to the Holocaust, and the last five minutes were incredibly, incredibly disturbing. For me, personally, it didn't cross the line into like ... unwatchable/crass/unneccessary/what have you, but I did suspect that for many people it would. I actually IMed bazcat89, who hasn't been following Miracle Day but has been meaning to catch up, in order to give her a low-down on it because I thought it would trigger her and she wouldn't want to watch. She doesn't, now, based just on my description.

You said you were interested in an objective opinion so I am trying to present one, but I do think something like this could potentially be very personal depending on the individual and their heritage or their family or their history etc etc and I would never judge someone for finding it to be too much. Probably if I was in your position I would agree with you. Because I'm not, the show has to work a little harder to get that same visceral reaction out of me, and the visuals definitely accomplished that in ways I don't think Rhys and Gwen's discussion alone would have. Is it insensitive to use that kind of imagery to evoke a reaction in a viewer like me? You could probably make that argument, yes.

I watch online so I have no idea if there's a warning or whatever that comes up on screen beforehand. It did get me thinking about trigger warnings though. I know they're basically limited to fandom and some areas of social justice, but it leaves me wondering about wider media. Is there some kind of website or something where you can look up a book/tv show/whatever and see a list of potential triggers? If there isn't there should be.

[iceshade]

Yeah, bazcat89 answered below, thank you for alerting her. It's nice to have someone who's also Jewish and understands in that personal way. But thank you also for commenting, because I know you're a big RTD fan and you could tell me if this is just starts going into hateboner territory, as I'm coming from the other side; I'm not happy with RTD, so is this just me looking for an excuse?

That makes sense. I think if they had just shown them lighting up the modules and them the smokestacks, and not necessarily Vera inside the flames screaming as well, that would have been enough. It probably still would have been a bit too much for me because of my personal issues, but I think it would have been enough to get a reaction out of most people. The term I've seen floating around a lot is "torture porn". It also begs the issue which is that I really think RTD feels he has to top what he presented in CoE: showing Jack reforming from his grizzly pieces and killing Stephen. Overall, CoE was a success in terms of viewers (I think? I joined fandom in Sept 09, so I don't really know) so RTD is giving the audience more of what he thinks they like, but at the same time he dismissed any criticism as that of the 9 Hysterical Women. The fact that people are still watching proves that fans enjoyed CoE and they want more of it-- so he's not wrong-- but I still think he's gone too far and he doesn't care.

See the thing is, before some more explicit episodes or movies on TV, the network usually shows a warning: just a black screen with the words that what you're about to see may be of a more graphic nature/not for kids, etc. Not like a movie warning or anything, and I understand that warnings for most media can't be like fanfic warnings which are done out of common courtesy. But even in the news before they show something really graphic they tell you that what they are going to show you is graphic because XYZ. And movies are given a rating (and why), so you know that a movie rated 'R: for language' but not sexual content or violence probably won't have explicit rape scenes in it.

But then again, you have this odd conundrum: any returning fans of Torchwood KNOW that 'major character death' is a warning (and probably even a guarantee), but the whole premise is that no one can die, so would you be expecting graphic death scenes so early on?

[_thirty2flavors]

I think in general (so, removing circumstances like triggers and stuff from the discussion) it comes down to precisely how strong a reaction you're aiming for. And this definitely varies from person to person, so what works for one person might be too strong/too explicit/whatever for other people. There's not a lot that makes me squirm, and I'm also just not a very... idk what to call it; my mind doesn't generate very vivid mental images, so while lighting up the modules and implying Vera's death would definitely still have been sad and still have been cringey and uncomfortable, I don't think it would have had the same reaction from me, that actual knot-in-the-stomach visceral reaction. But as I said, I'm a tough audience in that sense, so I can see how somethign that works for me without crossing a line could easily cross a line for other people. In this context I think it's also important that I am so relatively removed from what the scene was evoking. I think graphic sexual violence would cross a line quicker for me than just, um, plain old... regular... violence, just by nature of... I don't know, being a woman, I guess.

I was around when COE aired and it was one of those unusual situations where a majority of the dedicated fandom hated it but a lot of casual viewers and/or people who had never liked Torchwood before really enjoyed it. I'm not really in Torchwood fandom beyond what intersects with Doctor Who fandom but I still witnessed the total fandom meltdown and wankfest. There were probably some legitimate concerns raised by various people but the main thing that got picked up by media was "IANTO DIES" and accusations of homophobia, not (as far as I know) stuff about it being too graphic beyond vague "too dark for Torchwood" criticisms. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. I would say that COE to me was very very dark but seemed a bit more psychological-based than Miracle Day, which I do think is relying a lot on visual shock and violence. I wonder how much of that is related to the American side to the involvement, since in my experience American TV has fewer reservations about showing violence.

I guess what I am trying to say in this multiparagraph mess is that Miracle Day is going for dark and gritty and disturbing, and I think anything that shoots for that mark is going to run the risk of crossing a line for some viewers because all viewers are going to have a different definition of where that line is. I don't think you're wrong for thinking it's too much, especially given your personal history etc, but for me personally it's still stayed within the realm of "effective but not unnecessary". I may be in the minority there, I'm not really sure; for the most part my impression is that the internet is hating Miracle Day lol so maybe I am. I've said before though that I seem to be RTD's model audience because I can generally roll with whatever he throws at me and feel like I'm getting whatever it is I'm supposed to be getting, so it could just be a continuation of that. Not everyone's going to click with a text the way I do and I can see why, particularly with something like Miracle Day. I think the scene with Vera was different from torture porn like Saw or whatever in the sense that I think the scene with Vera had an explicit purpose and message beyond "eww gross", which was to drive home the absolute horror of what the modules were for and make it as "real" to the viewer as possible. If we'd been given a tamer version of that scene -- just Gwen and Rhys' conversation, or a shot of the burners lighting up, but no Vera -- I would have cringed because it'd still be terrible, but it would not have felt as "real" to me as it did the way it was. It's debatable whether that worked for most viewers or not, but I can see the intention behind it and I don't think it's entirely shock value.

It's quite possible Starz put up a warning, but I have no idea. There wasn't one in my download, but in my experience those are before the show starts, so maybe whoever records it doesn't record the warning. I also don't really know what the law is about that in the US. I think Canada would require a warning and a little rating thing at the top of the screen (G/PG/whatever).

[_thirty2flavors]

also holy wall of text Batman, I'm sorry!