RARG FUCKING RAAAAAAAAAAAAARG!
Someone just pissed me off.... a lot!!!
19/04/2006 23:34:42 The Iron Spider You know... showing my stuff to people... im becoming aware of the difference between art for artists and art for everyone
19/04/2006 23:35:14 Narcississy yeah
19/04/2006 23:35:26 Narcississy art for artisits is all about trends and whats in
19/04/2006 23:35:29 Narcississy and its shit
19/04/2006 23:35:38 The Iron Spider I didnt mean that
19/04/2006 23:35:45 The Iron Spider I meant art that other artists can appreciate
19/04/2006 23:36:09 The Iron Spider like, you look at that and you can appreciate it and you see the paint, and appreciate what ive done with it, etc etc
19/04/2006 23:36:14 The Iron Spider and the texture and the colours
19/04/2006 23:36:48 The Iron Spider where as a none artist looks at it and goes " Thats messy, and a bit busy..."
19/04/2006 23:37:01 Narcississy lol
19/04/2006 23:42:14 Narcississy we have this whole strange dynamic at uni
19/04/2006 23:43:23 Narcississy where all the really pretencious knobs consider themselves to not be artists, but people who are just creative
19/04/2006 23:43:35 The Iron Spider hmm~
19/04/2006 23:43:48 The Iron Spider thats shite
19/04/2006 23:44:10 Narcississy and then there are me and the people who I hang around with who don't go by the term artist as we don't want to end up pretencious lol
19/04/2006 23:44:28 Narcississy its strange, the term artist comes with too many pre set ideas
19/04/2006 23:44:37 The Iron Spider sheffield must be bizarre
19/04/2006 23:44:43 The Iron Spider up here it just means someone who makes art lol
19/04/2006 23:45:07 Narcississy yeah but what is art?
19/04/2006 23:45:15 Narcississy is a scribble on paper art?
19/04/2006 23:45:22 The Iron Spider it can be
19/04/2006 23:45:31 Narcississy depending on context
19/04/2006 23:45:43 Narcississy its a loaded question
19/04/2006 23:46:00 The Iron Spider I feel art is a product that is considered, representative of an idea and have a high level of preduction involved, if not in actual creation, then in theory and planning
19/04/2006 23:46:38 The Iron Spider production*
19/04/2006 23:46:52 Narcississy but that implies a cake box could be art etc etc depending on how you look at it
19/04/2006 23:47:24 The Iron Spider then I shall revise that statement to include some level of creative input
19/04/2006 23:47:35 Narcississy its kind of just opening our eyes to the fact that for everything that can be considerd as art, it can also be dismissed as something else
19/04/2006 23:48:50 Narcississy like the difference between kitsch and avant garde
19/04/2006 23:48:53 Narcississy etc
19/04/2006 23:49:07 Narcississy 'art' can never be classified
19/04/2006 23:49:19 The Iron Spider Its impossible to define something that has so many genres and subcultures attached to it, especially when those subcultures refuse to be concretely defined themselves
19/04/2006 23:51:04 Narcississy so you can see why they wouldn't want to be considerd artists.........as they don't want to deffine themselves no? I know its all boolocks, but if you talk to many 'artists', alot of themselves go by terms like social commentator and shit....not artist
19/04/2006 23:52:23 The Iron Spider not to offend, but I think that in and of itself has a high level of pretention attached, and allows a level of... hmm... release? that leads to what you probably consider pretentious are
19/04/2006 23:52:46 The Iron Spider Artist, to me anyway, means simple someone who creates, or who thinks of themselves as creating
19/04/2006 23:53:32 Narcississy but surely that makes you a creative.
19/04/2006 23:53:32 The Iron Spider its down to that person alone to justify their work... and our place to argue against it if we disagree lol
19/04/2006 23:53:38 The Iron Spider well yes
19/04/2006 23:53:48 The Iron Spider but at the same time it doesnt make you not an artist
19/04/2006 23:53:59 Narcississy for example, a designer is not considerd an artist per'se
19/04/2006 23:54:15 Narcississy but thats why tey are called designers not artists
19/04/2006 23:55:25 Narcississy Also I guess as a lot of people don't actually paint etc at my uni, when you say you're an artist people often reply with oh what do you paint? or draw etc, not what do you do with sound? or instalation
19/04/2006 23:55:37 Narcississy so again I guess they are limiting themselves
19/04/2006 23:57:07 The Iron Spider maybe its just a regional thing... not to sound in anyway accusatory of your uni lol
19/04/2006 23:57:14 The Iron Spider ive never really encountered that
19/04/2006 23:57:27 The Iron Spider we have maybe 2-3 conceptual artists in our year
19/04/2006 23:58:02 The Iron Spider 2 of which put in shitloads of work, back up their pieces with loads of studies and prep, one of which makes her projects over two days, and doesnt actually come to uni other than that
19/04/2006 23:58:44 The Iron Spider she pisses me off, the others, although I dont LIKE their work, because I see what they put into making it, I cant discount it or see it as invalid or uninteresting
19/04/2006 23:59:10 Narcississy We're well into theory and critical thinking
20/04/2006 00:00:01 The Iron Spider the rest of us dont really define what we produce, we were all forced into using many different media through the first few months... and as much as we might have whinged at the time, we all agree now its led to a massive change in our work. Pretty much everyone makes 2d and 3d work within their projects
20/04/2006 00:00:35 The Iron Spider I didnt mean just theory, I mean like actually representing things by doing painted studies, exploring form etc, before actually executing their conceptual work
20/04/2006 00:00:54 The Iron Spider which just makes me view it as a kind of extension of my abstraction I do
20/04/2006 00:02:29 The Iron Spider that one girl who I mentioned, the one who does things in a few days...
20/04/2006 00:02:49 The Iron Spider for her personal project, shes made a very tall chair, a very tall table, and shes gonna put them in a blue room with a very low door...
20/04/2006 00:03:15 The Iron Spider when asked why by a fellow student she said " Cause I can probably bullshit through it at the last minute."
20/04/2006 00:03:36 The Iron Spider followed by " I havent got time to do work on my project, I have a club night to organise" before swanning off
20/04/2006 00:04:08 Narcississy but that doesn't make her any less dedicated than anyone else
20/04/2006 00:04:38 The Iron Spider explain?
20/04/2006 00:05:16 Narcississy well for a start to create her work in a few days is pretty fucking hardcore
20/04/2006 00:05:31 Narcississy and to make what she has is also a big thing, I'm impressed
20/04/2006 00:05:51 Narcississy just because she's doing other stuff doesn't make it any less relavent
20/04/2006 00:06:00 The Iron Spider actually, before you get too impressed, she sent measurements to the woodwork room and got the woodwork guy to build it for her
20/04/2006 00:06:09 Narcississy so
20/04/2006 00:06:59 Narcississy Mark quinn did fuck all on 'his' sculpture of alsion lapper, it was first cast by his helpers, and then made in itally by sculpters, yet he's the artist
20/04/2006 00:07:06 Narcississy thats down to authorship
20/04/2006 00:07:26 The Iron Spider I dont agree with that either
20/04/2006 00:07:30 Narcississy andy warhol hardly did any of his own prints, he meerly signed his name
20/04/2006 00:07:53 Narcississy Michalangelo, didn't paint the whole of that Chapek by himself
20/04/2006 00:07:56 The Iron Spider Zone field by anthony gormley pissed me off because he didnt do many, if any of them
20/04/2006 00:07:58 Narcississy the list is endless
20/04/2006 00:08:18 Narcississy but its down to authorship and idea...hence creative
20/04/2006 00:10:14 The Iron Spider I dont have an issue with authorship dictating ownership and creativity, as long as that idea has been fully worked out and the evidence is there to show that they have considered it fully.
20/04/2006 00:11:07 The Iron Spider if she had a sketch book with paper work in there to show that she had written about it, thought about the idea and come to the conclusion that the chair and table was the best way too show that idea, then fair enough
20/04/2006 00:12:12 The Iron Spider but she hasnt got an idea yet. Another difference being is that we arent fully fledged artists yet, we're still learning. We are graded on the work we put into things, or at least we are on my course, and yet if an individual is good with his or her mouth they can get high marks without actually attending or putting in any work because theyre good at bullshitting
20/04/2006 00:12:37 Narcississy but isn't all good art bullshit?
20/04/2006 00:13:00 The Iron Spider if they believe that the idea theyre describing is represented fully by the product, and can back it up with stuff to show that they have considered it, then fine, but literally saying to people " Im just doing this cause I know I can pretend it means something" offends me
20/04/2006 00:13:48 Narcississy sorry to play devils advocate, but I really find it hard with studnets judging other students, like you said, who are we to judge. Just becasue she says that stuff doesn't make it less valid, or worthy of consideration
20/04/2006 00:14:43 The Iron Spider like I said, in my opinion, I dont see any evidence to show that she has even considered it
20/04/2006 00:14:59 The Iron Spider therefore why should I give it recognition or consideration
20/04/2006 00:15:23 Narcississy So you have to see a sketch book before you can say oh yeah I like or dislike that?
20/04/2006 00:15:38 The Iron Spider in uni, i have to be able to see that a student has put the work in
20/04/2006 00:15:40 Narcississy thats like me saying I don't like your painting
20/04/2006 00:16:23 The Iron Spider in a gallery setting I need some level of explanation of concept if it isnt immediately or literally clear within the works exhibited.
20/04/2006 00:16:34 The Iron Spider and you saying you dont like my painting would be fine if you honestly didnt like it
20/04/2006 00:17:27 Narcississy But I do, lol. What I'm saying is you made the statement you need to see evidence of thought etc. yet the majority of things you'll see in a gallery etc, will not have this
20/04/2006 00:17:53 The Iron Spider which is why, as a general rule, I dont like conceptual art
20/04/2006 00:18:01 Narcississy Also some people don't like sketch books, I certainly don't really use one, so does that make any live art I do worthless?
20/04/2006 00:18:15 The Iron Spider Im using sketchbooks as an example of backup work
20/04/2006 00:18:43 The Iron Spider how a person works is individual, in a university setting though they should at least do the work
20/04/2006 00:19:04 Narcississy all i'm saying is, don't be such a snob. You don't know that she hasn't done the work
20/04/2006 00:19:20 The Iron Spider I do, because shes said she hasnt done it...
20/04/2006 00:19:46 Narcississy but thats irrelivant
20/04/2006 00:21:04 Narcississy whjy are you so concerned about how someone else is working...in what way does it effect you other than it being different? If you think her attitude is shit fair enough, but to say that her art is worth less or has less meaning than yours or anyiones is a bit crappy
20/04/2006 00:22:50 The Iron Spider the I guess im a bit crappy
20/04/2006 00:23:13 Narcississy or narrow minded 8-)
20/04/2006 00:23:45 The Iron Spider righto then, ill be narrowminded
19/04/2006 23:34:42 The Iron Spider You know... showing my stuff to people... im becoming aware of the difference between art for artists and art for everyone
19/04/2006 23:35:14 Narcississy yeah
19/04/2006 23:35:26 Narcississy art for artisits is all about trends and whats in
19/04/2006 23:35:29 Narcississy and its shit
19/04/2006 23:35:38 The Iron Spider I didnt mean that
19/04/2006 23:35:45 The Iron Spider I meant art that other artists can appreciate
19/04/2006 23:36:09 The Iron Spider like, you look at that and you can appreciate it and you see the paint, and appreciate what ive done with it, etc etc
19/04/2006 23:36:14 The Iron Spider and the texture and the colours
19/04/2006 23:36:48 The Iron Spider where as a none artist looks at it and goes " Thats messy, and a bit busy..."
19/04/2006 23:37:01 Narcississy lol
19/04/2006 23:42:14 Narcississy we have this whole strange dynamic at uni
19/04/2006 23:43:23 Narcississy where all the really pretencious knobs consider themselves to not be artists, but people who are just creative
19/04/2006 23:43:35 The Iron Spider hmm~
19/04/2006 23:43:48 The Iron Spider thats shite
19/04/2006 23:44:10 Narcississy and then there are me and the people who I hang around with who don't go by the term artist as we don't want to end up pretencious lol
19/04/2006 23:44:28 Narcississy its strange, the term artist comes with too many pre set ideas
19/04/2006 23:44:37 The Iron Spider sheffield must be bizarre
19/04/2006 23:44:43 The Iron Spider up here it just means someone who makes art lol
19/04/2006 23:45:07 Narcississy yeah but what is art?
19/04/2006 23:45:15 Narcississy is a scribble on paper art?
19/04/2006 23:45:22 The Iron Spider it can be
19/04/2006 23:45:31 Narcississy depending on context
19/04/2006 23:45:43 Narcississy its a loaded question
19/04/2006 23:46:00 The Iron Spider I feel art is a product that is considered, representative of an idea and have a high level of preduction involved, if not in actual creation, then in theory and planning
19/04/2006 23:46:38 The Iron Spider production*
19/04/2006 23:46:52 Narcississy but that implies a cake box could be art etc etc depending on how you look at it
19/04/2006 23:47:24 The Iron Spider then I shall revise that statement to include some level of creative input
19/04/2006 23:47:35 Narcississy its kind of just opening our eyes to the fact that for everything that can be considerd as art, it can also be dismissed as something else
19/04/2006 23:48:50 Narcississy like the difference between kitsch and avant garde
19/04/2006 23:48:53 Narcississy etc
19/04/2006 23:49:07 Narcississy 'art' can never be classified
19/04/2006 23:49:19 The Iron Spider Its impossible to define something that has so many genres and subcultures attached to it, especially when those subcultures refuse to be concretely defined themselves
19/04/2006 23:51:04 Narcississy so you can see why they wouldn't want to be considerd artists.........as they don't want to deffine themselves no? I know its all boolocks, but if you talk to many 'artists', alot of themselves go by terms like social commentator and shit....not artist
19/04/2006 23:52:23 The Iron Spider not to offend, but I think that in and of itself has a high level of pretention attached, and allows a level of... hmm... release? that leads to what you probably consider pretentious are
19/04/2006 23:52:46 The Iron Spider Artist, to me anyway, means simple someone who creates, or who thinks of themselves as creating
19/04/2006 23:53:32 Narcississy but surely that makes you a creative.
19/04/2006 23:53:32 The Iron Spider its down to that person alone to justify their work... and our place to argue against it if we disagree lol
19/04/2006 23:53:38 The Iron Spider well yes
19/04/2006 23:53:48 The Iron Spider but at the same time it doesnt make you not an artist
19/04/2006 23:53:59 Narcississy for example, a designer is not considerd an artist per'se
19/04/2006 23:54:15 Narcississy but thats why tey are called designers not artists
19/04/2006 23:55:25 Narcississy Also I guess as a lot of people don't actually paint etc at my uni, when you say you're an artist people often reply with oh what do you paint? or draw etc, not what do you do with sound? or instalation
19/04/2006 23:55:37 Narcississy so again I guess they are limiting themselves
19/04/2006 23:57:07 The Iron Spider maybe its just a regional thing... not to sound in anyway accusatory of your uni lol
19/04/2006 23:57:14 The Iron Spider ive never really encountered that
19/04/2006 23:57:27 The Iron Spider we have maybe 2-3 conceptual artists in our year
19/04/2006 23:58:02 The Iron Spider 2 of which put in shitloads of work, back up their pieces with loads of studies and prep, one of which makes her projects over two days, and doesnt actually come to uni other than that
19/04/2006 23:58:44 The Iron Spider she pisses me off, the others, although I dont LIKE their work, because I see what they put into making it, I cant discount it or see it as invalid or uninteresting
19/04/2006 23:59:10 Narcississy We're well into theory and critical thinking
20/04/2006 00:00:01 The Iron Spider the rest of us dont really define what we produce, we were all forced into using many different media through the first few months... and as much as we might have whinged at the time, we all agree now its led to a massive change in our work. Pretty much everyone makes 2d and 3d work within their projects
20/04/2006 00:00:35 The Iron Spider I didnt mean just theory, I mean like actually representing things by doing painted studies, exploring form etc, before actually executing their conceptual work
20/04/2006 00:00:54 The Iron Spider which just makes me view it as a kind of extension of my abstraction I do
20/04/2006 00:02:29 The Iron Spider that one girl who I mentioned, the one who does things in a few days...
20/04/2006 00:02:49 The Iron Spider for her personal project, shes made a very tall chair, a very tall table, and shes gonna put them in a blue room with a very low door...
20/04/2006 00:03:15 The Iron Spider when asked why by a fellow student she said " Cause I can probably bullshit through it at the last minute."
20/04/2006 00:03:36 The Iron Spider followed by " I havent got time to do work on my project, I have a club night to organise" before swanning off
20/04/2006 00:04:08 Narcississy but that doesn't make her any less dedicated than anyone else
20/04/2006 00:04:38 The Iron Spider explain?
20/04/2006 00:05:16 Narcississy well for a start to create her work in a few days is pretty fucking hardcore
20/04/2006 00:05:31 Narcississy and to make what she has is also a big thing, I'm impressed
20/04/2006 00:05:51 Narcississy just because she's doing other stuff doesn't make it any less relavent
20/04/2006 00:06:00 The Iron Spider actually, before you get too impressed, she sent measurements to the woodwork room and got the woodwork guy to build it for her
20/04/2006 00:06:09 Narcississy so
20/04/2006 00:06:59 Narcississy Mark quinn did fuck all on 'his' sculpture of alsion lapper, it was first cast by his helpers, and then made in itally by sculpters, yet he's the artist
20/04/2006 00:07:06 Narcississy thats down to authorship
20/04/2006 00:07:26 The Iron Spider I dont agree with that either
20/04/2006 00:07:30 Narcississy andy warhol hardly did any of his own prints, he meerly signed his name
20/04/2006 00:07:53 Narcississy Michalangelo, didn't paint the whole of that Chapek by himself
20/04/2006 00:07:56 The Iron Spider Zone field by anthony gormley pissed me off because he didnt do many, if any of them
20/04/2006 00:07:58 Narcississy the list is endless
20/04/2006 00:08:18 Narcississy but its down to authorship and idea...hence creative
20/04/2006 00:10:14 The Iron Spider I dont have an issue with authorship dictating ownership and creativity, as long as that idea has been fully worked out and the evidence is there to show that they have considered it fully.
20/04/2006 00:11:07 The Iron Spider if she had a sketch book with paper work in there to show that she had written about it, thought about the idea and come to the conclusion that the chair and table was the best way too show that idea, then fair enough
20/04/2006 00:12:12 The Iron Spider but she hasnt got an idea yet. Another difference being is that we arent fully fledged artists yet, we're still learning. We are graded on the work we put into things, or at least we are on my course, and yet if an individual is good with his or her mouth they can get high marks without actually attending or putting in any work because theyre good at bullshitting
20/04/2006 00:12:37 Narcississy but isn't all good art bullshit?
20/04/2006 00:13:00 The Iron Spider if they believe that the idea theyre describing is represented fully by the product, and can back it up with stuff to show that they have considered it, then fine, but literally saying to people " Im just doing this cause I know I can pretend it means something" offends me
20/04/2006 00:13:48 Narcississy sorry to play devils advocate, but I really find it hard with studnets judging other students, like you said, who are we to judge. Just becasue she says that stuff doesn't make it less valid, or worthy of consideration
20/04/2006 00:14:43 The Iron Spider like I said, in my opinion, I dont see any evidence to show that she has even considered it
20/04/2006 00:14:59 The Iron Spider therefore why should I give it recognition or consideration
20/04/2006 00:15:23 Narcississy So you have to see a sketch book before you can say oh yeah I like or dislike that?
20/04/2006 00:15:38 The Iron Spider in uni, i have to be able to see that a student has put the work in
20/04/2006 00:15:40 Narcississy thats like me saying I don't like your painting
20/04/2006 00:16:23 The Iron Spider in a gallery setting I need some level of explanation of concept if it isnt immediately or literally clear within the works exhibited.
20/04/2006 00:16:34 The Iron Spider and you saying you dont like my painting would be fine if you honestly didnt like it
20/04/2006 00:17:27 Narcississy But I do, lol. What I'm saying is you made the statement you need to see evidence of thought etc. yet the majority of things you'll see in a gallery etc, will not have this
20/04/2006 00:17:53 The Iron Spider which is why, as a general rule, I dont like conceptual art
20/04/2006 00:18:01 Narcississy Also some people don't like sketch books, I certainly don't really use one, so does that make any live art I do worthless?
20/04/2006 00:18:15 The Iron Spider Im using sketchbooks as an example of backup work
20/04/2006 00:18:43 The Iron Spider how a person works is individual, in a university setting though they should at least do the work
20/04/2006 00:19:04 Narcississy all i'm saying is, don't be such a snob. You don't know that she hasn't done the work
20/04/2006 00:19:20 The Iron Spider I do, because shes said she hasnt done it...
20/04/2006 00:19:46 Narcississy but thats irrelivant
20/04/2006 00:21:04 Narcississy whjy are you so concerned about how someone else is working...in what way does it effect you other than it being different? If you think her attitude is shit fair enough, but to say that her art is worth less or has less meaning than yours or anyiones is a bit crappy
20/04/2006 00:22:50 The Iron Spider the I guess im a bit crappy
20/04/2006 00:23:13 Narcississy or narrow minded 8-)
20/04/2006 00:23:45 The Iron Spider righto then, ill be narrowminded