You're Just an Empty Cage

Oct 27, 2009 20:11

I was originally going to also post a fanfic that came based on the information I found here, but that's not to be...at least not to be today!

Below is an explanation of Branch and Main Houses, how this structure could play out in Naruto-verse and effect major Hyuuga characters.

Just an empty cage, if you kill the bird )

hyuugacest, character:hanabi, meta, fandom:naruto, character:hinata, hyuuga-centric, character:neji, character:ko

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fujiko1601 October 28 2009, 10:03:56 UTC
Firstly before I forget with all this interesting material, your lj-cut only covers your notes and your whole essay shows up on my f-list.

Thank you for putting all this together. It actually fits what ideas I had of Hyuuga much more than what we usually read in fanfiction 'is usually bothered by all those main house members when Hizashi was considered branch and justifying it with him being a twin made it sound somehow odd*

I believe in Narutoverse females can inherit. Wasn't Hinata called the heir at some point. And if her only purpose was to marry a suitable son-in-law, why would her own personal strength even matter? It might not come out as intended, but Kishimoto at least tries to make it look like kunoichi are equal in this verse. He went even as far as creating two female kages.

I wonder how the unnamed Hyuuga who urged Hiashi to use Hizashi's dead body instead fits in all this. Was he really their father? He was unsealed after all and the main and branch system doesn't leave much room for unsealed older males.

Hm, so theoretically there could be a lot of unsealed aunts who chose not to marry to keep their main house status (although it goes against the norm). Although on the other hand they might not have free will in this as you said.

Talking about leaving out the oldest child, I don't know whether you have seen Furin Kazan. Of course it is fiction, but as a Taiga drama it should at least try to be historically accurate and there Takeda Shingen's father tried to bypass him and make his younger brother the heir. (It didn't work out, but that is another story)

Naruto changing it through politics instead of just 'changing' the Hyuuga sounds really interesting. Nothing his 12-year old self would have thought of, but when he grows up and actually does become hokage (an idea I'm not particularly fond of) it would be interesting to see it play out. I just hope that doesn't mean there will be hordes of unsealed Hyuuga running around. The seal as unpleasant as it is, has a purpose.

I babble a lot, don't I? The Hyuuga has been an exciting topic for me for a long time now.

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hungrytiger11 October 28 2009, 21:04:25 UTC
I don't mind "babble;" that's why I write meta- for discussion. :)

I will agree that Kishimoto's world is intended to be gender-equal, for the most part. As you said, there are female kages after all, and even though the male-to-female ratio is not the same, there are still a lot of females. Still, since promigenture and the dozoku family structure system are not gender-equal, I felt it important to include both possiblities.

The unnamed Hyuuga...ooooh! That probably IS the twins' father. How creepy! Or- I suppose it is technically possible that it is either an uncle or great-uncle of the twins who never married and therefore never formed his own household. But most likely the father condenming his own son. One of the instances where the emphasis on good of the group over the individual in the dozoku is most apperent, but it is also *shivers.* Yeah.

On a lighter note, an image of an army of maiden aunts about the house is hilarious!

I haven't seen that drama; it sounds interesting. I was a little hazy on the hows and whys (it seemed to depend on the time period and the area of Japan) of when an oldest child is not picked to be heir. Obviously after promigenture (where eldest inherits), any of the kids could, and occasionally before another kid could too. It depended on the situation, I guess...

Logically, I think that the only way Naruto could "change" the Hyuuga is one of three ways. By passing laws (like the ones I suggested above or others), by having a relationship/marriage/family with Hinata (not what he was thinking of doing at twelve and not the one I'd want), or by changing the people who are Hyuuga by having friendships with them and helping to shape who they are. Ultimately, I think the third is the subtlest and best, but I'm not sure that is the root that will (if any is) be taken...

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fujiko1601 October 28 2009, 21:48:37 UTC
It is good to consider the possibility especially when writing such a thorough essay, but somehow the idea doesn't seem to fit Naruto all that well. They have found new and more interesting reasons for discrimination than sex.

I have thought about who the unsealed Hyuuga was. I didn't have your poof, but I have always believed that only the direct line is the Main house, so I was a bit confused by him. If he is the twins father, it is strange that nobody mentioned it. On the other hand he did call Hiashi just Hiashi without honorifics if I remember correctly and the onemanga's scanlation seems to agree. Unmarried uncle who didn't marry and devoted himself to the Hyuuga instead could work. He could still be the twins' father and you are right it is creepy if not surprising.

It could be so frustrating for Hiashi to handle them all XD

I think there were more examples from the warring states period if I think about the dramas I've seen. Maeda Toshiie was not the eldest son, his older brother f´was forced to give up his position in favour of him. Was Oda Nobunaga his father's oldest? Then again it was the warring states era.

I believe the canon will go with Naruto/Sakura so the second option is out. I would like him to grow past his need to become the Hokage and this leaves only the last option. This would be interesting, but isn't there too many Hyuuga for that to work. Of course it is only those in power who matter, so after Hinata and Neji are old enough to have significant say, why not? I really don't know whether Kishi still remembers that promise or if he intends to do something about it. Maybe changing Neji's heart was all that mattered.

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hungrytiger11 October 28 2009, 23:49:44 UTC
From a storytelling POV, a demon in you is a VERY interesting (if not particularly common) reason for discrimination, true.

And it would be frustrating trying to balance and handle everything. lol.

I hope canon goes NaruSaku (and not just because I love NejiHina either...). I think they mesh well and basically I want Naruto to get who he wants after all this. I'm a little worried about what Sakura has to say to him though... well, not that the end looks anywhere near in site no matter what is said.

Personally, I do think that Naruto will become Hokage, though I agree that it would be better storytelling to have him outgrow his need. But the target audience is at an age where I'm not sure it could end other than Naruto achieving said dream. Not that that means he'll make the law I guessed at. As you said, maybe changing Neji's heart was all the mattered :)

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amaiko October 29 2009, 02:11:51 UTC
The unnamed Hyuuga...ooooh! That probably IS the twins' father. How creepy! Or- I suppose it is technically possible that it is either an uncle or great-uncle of the twins who never married and therefore never formed his own household. But most likely the father condenming his own son. One of the instances where the emphasis on good of the group over the individual in the dozoku is most apperent, but it is also *shivers.* Yeah.

He's not the twins' father. In the first databook, their father is represented by a black silhouette that simply says "Hiashi/Hizashi's father". If Unnamed Hyuuga Guy was the father, he obviously would have been mentioned as such. Like you said, he's probably either an uncle or a great uncle.

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hungrytiger11 October 30 2009, 12:53:44 UTC
That's good to know. I haven't read the data-books.... (feeling a bit sheepish!)

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amaiko October 31 2009, 06:23:00 UTC
:D Don't feel bad: it's not easy to find translations of the databooks, especially the first one (which pretty much everyone seems to have ignored in favor of the second and the third ones) unless you hang out around Narutofan (which I would never suggest that anyone that values their sanity do on a regular basis) or Mangahelper.

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