kink and canon

[hth_the_first]

The friendly folks at Marvel have brought us this cover for the new issue of Heroes for Hire. I can't imagine hiring any of these women for anything, unless I should suddenly be in need of backup singers, but what do I know. Anyway, for all of you who loved the Mary Jane statuette but really wished there had been more crying and alien spooge,

Comments

[ratcreature]

I kind of agree that it is different if the companies do it in mainstream continuity, but comics "canon" is, well, very versatile in that they do publish characters differently for different audiences at the same time, and also publish Elseworlds about their characters without that having an impact on the character in the other stories. I mean, that DC publishes images of a nearly naked, whipped, gagged and collared Lex Luthor at the feet of a granny dominatrix character in an Elseworld (that btw wasn't rated mature) doesn't really change Lex the supervillain in the mainstream continuity.

I've read DC Elsweorlds that were way weirder and kinkier than the wackiest fantropes, there's the one in a dystopian future Gotham ruled by a Batman cult, in which we see CultLeader!Batman fight a weird bondage gear Batman to the death, because the cult ruling Gotham has a ritual once a year where others can challenge The Batman (who is thought of as a god) to become the next one, and to win that right to fight, first they have to bring down one

[liviapenn]

But aren't there some Elseworlds that do end up bleeding into the main continuity? Like, hm, "JSA: The Golden Age" (I think the original Starman's nervous breakdown was something that was originally introduced in this supposedly non-canon tale) or "Kingdom Come" or any of Miller's later stuff.

[ratcreature]

Yeah, also it's not always clear how much in continuity something is, especially when a character is undergoing gradual retcons, like with Superman: Birthright and such. My point was mostly that in comics canon itself characterization is more like in fanfic already. Like some is clearly OOC and intended to be, some is in character but edgier and more adult, some is done for humor (like when you get crossovers between the JLA and Bugs Bunny and such), some may start as a potential interpretation but gets adopted kind of like fanon that works really well... It's just that a comic company doing something to a character doesn't have the same lasting effect than if say the SGA producers decided something for John Sheppard, even if they just decided it for a quantum mirror version of him, in part I think because with comics there is so much accumulative backstory that there is a certain "inertia", which sometimes leads also to retcons being eroded, like the whole superpets thing. They were abandoned and for a while nobody expected to ever

[terrie01]

For me, if we got the male equivalent of the MJ statue, say, Remy washing the car in only a pair of soaking wet, skin tight short shorts, I'd be okay with it. What makes me cringe is when violence gets added to the situation. I enjoy some pretty dicey situations in what I read, because I love the dramatic tension it adds. I don't get any of that is a non narrative media. Cover art, statues, all those, give us the act for the act's sake. The power struggles, the give and take of even unbalanced power dynamics, can't be portrayed.

[lea_hazel]

I can't express how much I agree with you. I've never been able to quite express it in words, but I would not want the solution to the cheesecake problem to be more beefcake. Not because the idea of Captain XY (or Lady XX) in minimal gear posing provocatively doesn't attract me sexually, but because it doesn't attract me as a reader.

To me, there's a clear distinction between porn and not porn, and poses or outfits or scenarios that I would enjoy in fanfic or fanart have no place on my bookshelf. Fan-porn by definition takes deep characters and shallows them up to fit the tropes of the erotic genre -- I enjoy a cetain character as a dominatrix because the idea excites me, not because I think she should canonically be a dominatrix.

In canon, I prefer that the sexualized imagery not extend past couples that have sexual relationships; the closest thing to a turn-on in a comic book should be two characters shown kissing, or in bed. The characters should not be posing at the "camera" (the reader/viewer).

[shilohmm]

I think part of the problem is that comics have essentially become fanfic, it's just that the companies have "privileged" one particular variety of fanfic (het with stereotypical females) over all other possibilities. Not to say there aren't people with a more professional mindset working for DC or Marvel - of course there are. And not to say comics haven't always had a bit of fanfic vibe - when I first ran across fanfic in the late seventies, it was like 90% of the goodness of comics (fewer pretty pictures, is all). Back then there were even stories starring comic writers and editors who'd slipped between the dimensions and got to have adventures with the heroes (Cary Bates and Elliot Maggin in JLA and... Julie Schwartz? in Flash?). :D

I don't have any problem with slash fandom being "closed" to people who don't appreciate it, because anyone who is kept out of slash fandom has other options. But when it comes to superheroes, DC and Marvel are the main options - not to put down other producers, but I grew up with Superman,

[liviapenn]

Now they're the standard, and it's the very few who don't fit that role who stand out - and nearly all of the exceptions are younger (Kitty Pryde, Mary Marvel).

.... Ah, you haven't seen Mary Marvel lately, have you?

I almost hate to disillusion you. But, uh. Yeah, it's... She's in kind of an unfortunate phase right now. A tight black latex costume complete with mini-mini-skirt phase. Sorry.

[shilohmm]

Yah, I know, or at least I've seen some clips, but until fairly recently she was an exception. :p I don't read every X-zine out there and Kitty could be wandering around in a teddy for all of me, but they were the only exceptions I could think of. My exceptions list is getting right slim, which I suppose just re-enforces my main point. *sigh*

Sheryl

[anonymous]

Sorry, I don't have an lj