Cloak Notes/Thoughts
Looking back over my prior entries under the 'cloak' tag as I get ready to take this project on again. My thoughts:
1) Loading the images previously provided by mmcnealy here as the original links she provided seem to have died on my prior post (they were in the comments to my first entry on this subject, which went like this:
"For the first cloak, I looked up Kohler and he has it as a full circle cloak with long tails. Its an interesting idea, and I think it would probably give the look you're going for.
Another cloak from Kohler a 3/4 circle cloak with arm slits, just for a comparison.
Juan de Alcega hasa similar cloak for men but without the arm slits.
The cloaks with hoods are *so* Spanish! Here's a picture from Juan de Alcega Cloak and Jerkin of cloth. Its a full circle with a hood.
The full circle would give you the fullness needed to be able to put the arms out, and have enough fabric to keep the body warm."
2) Martin's prior website with details on his patterning and cloak project are gone - but not forgotten thanks to the Way Back Machine! *w00t!* I would really consider this more of a Schaube in this version, largely due to the sleeves. I think without these sleeves I think the result of creating a cloak with an extended and attached collar that doubles as a hood would give you a cloak with a similar look to the Durer image from the post here. As noted before, the PDF file of Martin's pattern is very like landsknecth_po's here.
3) Additional images of hood patterning are something I should look into... but given the various versions in the art I feel that variety is key here. There were a *lot* of methods including the hood-incorporated-into-the-shawl-collar version that both Martin and Po used.
4) Did some more scrounging for original images in the Single Leaf Woodcut books. Variations galore! There are a number of images of peasants in short capes of various types (which were far less common than coats), some that included splits up the sides of the garment to the shoulders to allow freedom of arm movement (but with enough fullness in the garment that I would guess they are still semi-circular in cut at the least) and various hoods both integrated into the garment and separate (like in the older, medieval style hunting hoods).
* Book I, page 160 (G.179-180) includes two small images of gentlemen in cloak garments. One with an interesting triangular shaped hood that is tied to the back shoulders of the main cloak garment (there are a number of hoods like this in prior examples I have seen and I *love* the idea of the hood being pointed on).
* Book I, page 226 (G.247) has a standing collar with no visible hood and a large fullness of fabric at the neckline that is pleated to fit. Makes me very curious about the original cut on this piece.
* Book 1, page 233 (250-9 & 250-10) Two versions of the same image, both with a simple cloak with tied corners. This appears similar to the type seen on the soldier in the first image here.
* Book 1, page 304 (G.326 - Uber and Unter of Leaves in the deck) Two variations on knee length cloaks. Both with slashed trim, one with what could be a tied on hood, possibly with a knot in it's hanging end. The version with the potential hood also has a short standing collar - but this could be the collar of an undergarment showing.
* Book 1, page 335 (G.365) Two men wearing garments that may be cloaks with shawl style collars. Sleeves are not immediately in evidence, but possible splits for arm holes are in the body of the 'cloak' garments. Either that or the body of the cloak is thrown back over the shoulder in some way that allows the arm to be free of the material.
* Book 1, page 372 (G.402-404) Several gentlemen at a garden party in Venice wearing cloaks. Only one seated showing a hood attached (there may be others, but their backs are not visible).
* Book 2, page 640 (G676-683) This is the series of 'cuts depicting the Siege of Wolfenbuttel. A number of men, primarily riders, wear short capes of circular cut.
* Book 3, page 778 (G.816) Central figure with back to viewer is wearing a cloak with a tied hood, pointed in shape. G.817 on the page adjacent has a similar figure on the left side with back to viewer, but the detail of that garment are sketchy at best.
* Book 3, page 1015 (G.1064) A cloak worn by a prince with only one shoulder covered. Wrapped 'toga style' across body.
* Book 3, page 1020 (G.1069) Another simple, open necked cloak worn by a torchdance partner. Another like it on pages 1022 & 1024.
* Book 3, page 1027 (G.1076) Cloak of a more complex cut with an apparent hood (tied in place) and knotted detail. Shawl collar may fall over hood.
* Book 3, page 1054 (G.1105) Specifically a landsknecht in a cloak with knotted details. This is the image that I have seen reproduced by other artists who interpreted the cloak as a more pancho like garment. It clearly is not in the original image.
* Book 3, page 1166 (G.1220) Bohemian captain in a cloak, body of a style similar to the tailors pattern book image above. However, the falling 'collar' (hood?) in the back is interesting. I am pretty sure it is *not* a hood, but its shape and placement are interesting as I can't see a functional purpose for them.
* Book 4, page 1185 (G.1235) Front row, cloak wit knotted detail and rolled/slashed 'falling collar'. The carter in this image is wearing a short, split cape of a type seen on a number of men in baggage train images. G.1236 on the next page has a soldier in a shorter cape (waist length).
* Book 4, page 1271 (G.1326) Cloak with apparent affixed tassel as detail. Very basic design with simple trim. Image almost identical to character of 'the marriage candidate' on the page prior.
Now to go over choices with the hubby and settle on a design...
1) Loading the images previously provided by mmcnealy here as the original links she provided seem to have died on my prior post (they were in the comments to my first entry on this subject, which went like this:
"For the first cloak, I looked up Kohler and he has it as a full circle cloak with long tails. Its an interesting idea, and I think it would probably give the look you're going for.
Another cloak from Kohler a 3/4 circle cloak with arm slits, just for a comparison.
Juan de Alcega hasa similar cloak for men but without the arm slits.
The cloaks with hoods are *so* Spanish! Here's a picture from Juan de Alcega Cloak and Jerkin of cloth. Its a full circle with a hood.
The full circle would give you the fullness needed to be able to put the arms out, and have enough fabric to keep the body warm."
2) Martin's prior website with details on his patterning and cloak project are gone - but not forgotten thanks to the Way Back Machine! *w00t!* I would really consider this more of a Schaube in this version, largely due to the sleeves. I think without these sleeves I think the result of creating a cloak with an extended and attached collar that doubles as a hood would give you a cloak with a similar look to the Durer image from the post here. As noted before, the PDF file of Martin's pattern is very like landsknecth_po's here.
3) Additional images of hood patterning are something I should look into... but given the various versions in the art I feel that variety is key here. There were a *lot* of methods including the hood-incorporated-into-the-shawl-collar version that both Martin and Po used.
4) Did some more scrounging for original images in the Single Leaf Woodcut books. Variations galore! There are a number of images of peasants in short capes of various types (which were far less common than coats), some that included splits up the sides of the garment to the shoulders to allow freedom of arm movement (but with enough fullness in the garment that I would guess they are still semi-circular in cut at the least) and various hoods both integrated into the garment and separate (like in the older, medieval style hunting hoods).
* Book I, page 160 (G.179-180) includes two small images of gentlemen in cloak garments. One with an interesting triangular shaped hood that is tied to the back shoulders of the main cloak garment (there are a number of hoods like this in prior examples I have seen and I *love* the idea of the hood being pointed on).
* Book I, page 226 (G.247) has a standing collar with no visible hood and a large fullness of fabric at the neckline that is pleated to fit. Makes me very curious about the original cut on this piece.
* Book 1, page 233 (250-9 & 250-10) Two versions of the same image, both with a simple cloak with tied corners. This appears similar to the type seen on the soldier in the first image here.
* Book 1, page 304 (G.326 - Uber and Unter of Leaves in the deck) Two variations on knee length cloaks. Both with slashed trim, one with what could be a tied on hood, possibly with a knot in it's hanging end. The version with the potential hood also has a short standing collar - but this could be the collar of an undergarment showing.
* Book 1, page 335 (G.365) Two men wearing garments that may be cloaks with shawl style collars. Sleeves are not immediately in evidence, but possible splits for arm holes are in the body of the 'cloak' garments. Either that or the body of the cloak is thrown back over the shoulder in some way that allows the arm to be free of the material.
* Book 1, page 372 (G.402-404) Several gentlemen at a garden party in Venice wearing cloaks. Only one seated showing a hood attached (there may be others, but their backs are not visible).
* Book 2, page 640 (G676-683) This is the series of 'cuts depicting the Siege of Wolfenbuttel. A number of men, primarily riders, wear short capes of circular cut.
* Book 3, page 778 (G.816) Central figure with back to viewer is wearing a cloak with a tied hood, pointed in shape. G.817 on the page adjacent has a similar figure on the left side with back to viewer, but the detail of that garment are sketchy at best.
* Book 3, page 1015 (G.1064) A cloak worn by a prince with only one shoulder covered. Wrapped 'toga style' across body.
* Book 3, page 1020 (G.1069) Another simple, open necked cloak worn by a torchdance partner. Another like it on pages 1022 & 1024.
* Book 3, page 1027 (G.1076) Cloak of a more complex cut with an apparent hood (tied in place) and knotted detail. Shawl collar may fall over hood.
* Book 3, page 1054 (G.1105) Specifically a landsknecht in a cloak with knotted details. This is the image that I have seen reproduced by other artists who interpreted the cloak as a more pancho like garment. It clearly is not in the original image.
* Book 3, page 1166 (G.1220) Bohemian captain in a cloak, body of a style similar to the tailors pattern book image above. However, the falling 'collar' (hood?) in the back is interesting. I am pretty sure it is *not* a hood, but its shape and placement are interesting as I can't see a functional purpose for them.
* Book 4, page 1185 (G.1235) Front row, cloak wit knotted detail and rolled/slashed 'falling collar'. The carter in this image is wearing a short, split cape of a type seen on a number of men in baggage train images. G.1236 on the next page has a soldier in a shorter cape (waist length).
* Book 4, page 1271 (G.1326) Cloak with apparent affixed tassel as detail. Very basic design with simple trim. Image almost identical to character of 'the marriage candidate' on the page prior.
Now to go over choices with the hubby and settle on a design...