Looking for honest, constructive opinions
I'm looking for a community that offers brutally honest feedback on icons with an eye towards helping a person improve. I've reached a plateau and a sameness to my icons; I'd like to go further. I ask for constructive criticism on my icon posts, but I think people are too afraid I'll get pissy or that they'll hurt my feelings or something. The
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I'm glad you're finding my observations kind of useful, it's not like I ever did anything like this before, so I'm just sort of learning myself...let me know if there's something you'd like me to focus on more...anything you didn't understand (I tend to ramble a lot) or you didn't find useful at all (so I'll stop bugging you with it). :-)
Anyway... second row, right?
#1
what I like: pretty much everything. Love the cropping, love the coloring, love the subject...*g*
what I don't like: there's nothing I don't like...if I really, really have to pick something, I'd say Lee's torso is a bit too bright, but that's just a very minimal thing.
what I'd do differently: nothing. :-)
Overall a beautiful icon. Great cropping, great scene, great coloring.
#2
what i like: I like the mirror idea and I like that you used it vertically and not horizontally, very original.
what I don't like: you cropped off Godzilla's head. I think the whole composition and symmetry would work better with the whole Godzy's body, head included. ;))
what I'd do differently: I'd keep the heads in the frame, that's all.
Overall I don't really know the subject and I never iconized cartoons, so I don't really know what to think about it...it's fun to look at, tho. :-)
#3
what I like: I love the coloring and the cap is really dramatic, great impact.
what I don't like: the text (omg I'm such a textless freak, sorry) and the font you used, it sort of doesn't merge well with the pic.
what I'd do differently: I'd leave it textless or, in alternative I'd use some oldish font (you know, those old book-medieval type of font) to write the text. Also I'd place it a bit lower, near the neck.
Overall a very pretty icon, I don't recognize the subject so I can't be more specific, but it's definitely very pretty.
#4
what I like: love the cropping and the coloring (the skin omg) is gorgeous.
what I don't like: it's a teeeny bit overshapened, but again, it's minimal, really.
what I'd do differently: uhm...let's see...I really like it the way it is...if I really have to pick something, I'd probably take away those black shadowy things on the corners, to make the subject "pop out" more. Or maybe not...it's one of those things I'd have to actually see to decide if I'd liked it better...*ponders*
Overall it's a gorgeous icon, nothing much to add. :-)
#5
what I like: the text is funny and clever and it's sarcastic without being too "violent", if you know what I mean.
what I don't like: I'm not sure I like the font (since it's a comic, I'd use comic-like fonts, for example "comic" or "acme") even tho it sorta works.
what I'd do differently: I'd probably use a different font and maybe I'd try to put the yellow-orange behind the guy, just to create a bit more contrast.
Overall, a very funny icon. :-)
I'll try to post the comments on the last row soonish (it takes quite some time to do this thing properly... *g*), unless you want me to take a look to something else... :-)
Again, hope it's helping, even a tiny bit! :x:x:x
*smooches*
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I am finding this IMMENSELY useful. I'm planning to respond to all of your points. Not to be argumentative but to show what I am getting out of your efforts. Sort of proving that you're not wasting your time. :)
I'll go over the icons I have in the last row tonight and see if it might not be smarter to switch some out because I think they have a similar set of problems. Rather than having you critique the same problem over and over, I'd like to see if I can find some new errors. ;-)
One thing I've done purposefully is not give *my* take on an icon before you comment because I wanted to see if the same things that I disliked leapt out at you. Once I think something is "wrong," I can't see past it. Sometimes your critiques match mine but sometimes you noticed problems that I hadn't. I also want to play a little with your suggested cropping changes and see what you do. I really hadn't thought that cutting off as much of the heads as I have been, for instance, lessened the impact. I need to see the two side by side to decide what I think. I want to look at the 10 again with all of this in mind and give it at least as much time and thought as you've given me. I really, really, really appreciate it.
You're not helping a "tiny bit;" you're helping me a lot!
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That's great! Actually I was sorta going to suggest you to do that, but I didn't want to sound too..uhmmm...imposing?
Anyway, I think it's really important to actually play with the icons...see, I made all the suggestions "blindly", so to speak. I don't have the original photoshop files to play with, so I can only imagine how the icons would look like if I changed "this or that", but it's all kind of hypothetical...I can't actually be sure about how they'll look until I'll actually see them, you know what I mean?
So, basically I'm telling you what I think it would work, but the only way to know it for sure is to see the final icon. :-)
/ramble
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Feel free to say whatever comes to mind without worrying about editing. I don't view these as commands but as suggestions. I'm good at deciding to do what I want to do. I threw open the door, looking for any and all ideas anyone offered, because I'd tried everything I could think of and had reached a deadend.
I know that what you're doing for me takes a lot of time and I totally appreciate it. Whether or not a particular suggestion applied to a particular cap would make a particular icon better isn't exactly what I'm worried about. For instance, maybe the head was cut off in the original cap and I can't do what you suggested but your mentioning it means I know to look for a better cap. Or, whatever. The point is I wasn't satisfied with my end product and that is what you're looking at and helping to identify how it could be better.
You're helping me develop an eye for composition, pointing out some of my weaknesses; you're giving me awareness and tools for improvement. That is invaluable. *smooches*
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OMG OK. :-)
And btw, if you have questions about anything I say, or even, you know, random questions, feel free to ask...I'll try to answer if I can. :-)
Also, because I was alone at work - and bored out of my fucking mind - I played around with one of your icons...;))
I couldn't do much (since I didn't have the original file), but still...
.....
/random
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Sorry work is so boring -- but for my sake I hope you're still there and can peek at the file. What size font is the bottom line? I'd like to get a better feel for sizes. If not, don't worry about it. I've got some memroeis devoted to text and I can compare to the examples there and guess. :)
I'm sure, as I play around, I'll come up with questions. Again? Thank you for taking the time to tutor me. I am grateful.
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Big text is cool too, I love it when it's properly placed and when it "suits" the icon. The secret - imo - is that if you know you're going to make an icon with text, and you want the text to be legible and "prominent" (so to speak), you have to make (crop, especially) the icon to fit the text, not the other way around. ;-)
What size font is the bottom line?
Ack, I'm home now and I don't have the psd file... but I seem to recall that it's "times new roman" 9 or 10 px.
*smooches* ♥
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Your eye as well as your brain is sexy. I included this one because it was a total experiment for me in emphasis. I tried to add to the depth of the image by placing a very light brush in white over the left side of Apollo's torso (I mean, like 8-10% on soft light) and a black brush (again, 8-10% on soft light) over Starbuck in the background. I'd have to recheck the *.psd file at home, but I think that annoying over explosure of his shoulder is in the cap and not due to my brush but...damn! Those are good, good eyes you've got!
#3 what I don't like: the text (omg I'm such a textless freak, sorry) and the font you used, it sort of doesn't merge well with the pic.
No, you're absolutely right. Don't apologize. The cap is from a relatively obscure sci fi show. I put the text in, realized I hadn't downloaded the font for the show, went to get it, and found it's gone. Or that I misremembered seeing it. Or something. In this case, the font doesn't fit and I can't guess why I left it as it is and developed a blind spot to it. *rolls eyes at self*
what I'd do differently: ...Also I'd place it a bit lower, near the neck.
Near the neck? Can you explain why? I'm not questioning the decision so much as trying to see why that placement is more pleasing. Placement is a frequent question for me. :)
#5 what I don't like: I'm not sure I like the font (since it's a comic, I'd use comic-like fonts, for example "comic" or "acme") even tho it sorta works.
I'm not all that fond of the font myself. I chose it because it is the font for that comic. Or, it often is.
I'd probably use a different font and maybe I'd try to put the yellow-orange behind the guy, just to create a bit more contrast.
Oh, good suggestion! I'm always so focused on making the words legible when I use text that I tend to neglect the image.
I'll try to post the comments on the last row soonish (it takes quite some time to do this thing properly... *g*), unless you want me to take a look to something else... :-)
I am so very, very appreciative of all the time you're taking on this. I never intended for anyone to spend so much time on it. I'm getting a lot out of it, though, so I want you to know that I'm falling all over myself in glee.
I went through and changed the icons in the last row. I think I've found some with less oversharpening but all are various layout/composition/text experiments. I pruned the text down to 2. If you're tired of this, please feel free to ignore them. :) The not-so-active community I found icon_concrit, limits entries to 10 and encourages fewer. You've already done me an immense favor. You've given me some invaluable feedback.
If you're willing to look at a last five, I'd dearly love to have your critique.
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Eh, there isn't a scientific reason or anything...it's just that I visually like "empty" space, so if you place the text in the middle of the icon, near the neck, you'll leave the whole right part of the icon "free" and that's something I visually like. ;-)
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#1
What I like: uhm...honestly...not much. It's my least favorite from the whole batch. I guess the "skin job" (as I call it, you know, when you smooth the skin) is ok and the coloring is not bad.
What I don't like: the cropping is...meh. I don't really understand the rotation of the image...it could have worked if you'd crop just the face, maybe...but like that, I don't know.
I also don't like the grungy background and those disturbing lines going all over the image.
What I'd do differently: I'd either rotate the image until it's "straight" or crop it with just a face close up. I'd tone down a bit the super white t-shirt and use a texture for background.
Overall: as I said, it's the icon I like less from the whole batch.
#2
What I like: GREAT cropping and coloring. I really like this one. :x:x:x
What I don't like: Uhm... there's nothing I don't like, it's great. :-)
What I'd do differently: Uhm... just for the sake of experimenting ('cos, as I said, the icon is great just the way it is) I'd try to enhance the color of the sky, make it a deep light blue or maybe use a gradient to mess with the colors...dunno... ;))
Overall: a great icon, lot of "atmosphere", if you know what I mean...:-)
#3
What I like: the cropping is quite original as is the coloring. I don't know the subject, so I don't really *get* it, but it's pretty.
What I don't like: the font you used for the text. I like the color, and the placement is not bad, but the font just doesn't work for me.
What I'd do differently: uhm...aside for changing the font, I'd maybe try to write it all in one row, and I'd place it just under the image, so I could leave the "blue thingy" in the lower part of the icon a bit more evident...you know what I mean? *iz English challenged*
Overall, it's a very nice icon. As I said, I don't know the subject so I don't get the text, but it's lovely.
#4
What I like: I looove the cropping! And the coloring is gorgeous. :x.x:x
What I don't like: it's a bit oversharpened (especially the eyes), but I do like the details of the hair. :-)
What I'd do differently: uhm...nothing, aside for the not oversharpening thingy... I can't really understand what's that white-y band on his hair, though...can you see what I'm talking about? I'd take away that "thing" if I could.
Overall, a gorgeous icon for a gorgeous subject. :-)
#5
What I like: I love the cap you chose! And the text is totally fitting (and funny!!). I also like the coloring and the cropping, even if I'd "work with it" it a little (see below).
What I don't like: I kinda don't like the font (omg you must be so tired to hear me say that :|) and the semi-transparency you used. I mean, I usually love it when the text is merged with the background, but in this case Jack is SHOUTING, so the text should pop out, not blend in with the background, don't you think?
What I'd do differently: even tho I really like your cropping I'd try to either shift the image all the way to the right, cropping Jack's ear off, or I'd just put the image right in the middle of the icon. I'd use a strong font (like arial black or impact) for the text and a bright color (but not white).
Overall, I really like the icon, perfect "skin job" and great coloring. Also, it's funny. :-)
Hope I wasn't too annoying... *iz nervous*
*loves*
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Hope I wasn't too annoying... *iz nervous*
Annoying?!? You're doing me a favor, hon, and I soooooo appreciate it. Seriously.
#1 -- I suppose context is helpful in grokking icons but I threw that one in because I wanted an icon where I'd actually used a texture in a way that wasn't just replacing the background. I don't know if the cropping and rotation make more sense if you consider that I was given the source pic and asked to produce something that looked like it could be a rap artist CD cover for an AU story written by a friend. My first attempt was this but the character was supposed to be a "serious" musician and I had to angle the pic to crop out the humorous part.
I don't know why I'm telling you this. But I did manage to find an icon that distracted you from my oversharpening! ;-)
#2 -- So, you like as is? I'll play with some blue gradients to see what it would look like with the blue sky "punched up" a bit. I've been wondering about using a texture but everything I've tried seems to distract from the detail I spent *hours* bringing out of the pic. Landscapes are hard for me because I can never tell when they're "finished." I can go on playing forever.
#3 -- Excellent suggestion! Now that I'm aware my text can be smaller and still legible, that opens new doors to me. I was really sorry that the text took over the bottom bit of the icon. I wanted it to more clearly be a banner across the empty space of the street. (As for the subject matter, that's from Stargate and the NID is a group of ham-fisted government renegades. That's from a scene where they covertly sneak into town. I think the director went for pretty pic rather than making sense.)
#4 -- I can't really understand what's that white-y band on his hair, though...can you see what I'm talking about? I'd take away that "thing" if I could.
I know exactly what you're talking about. That was the lighting in the original pic and I tried to mute its effect because it is weird. Short of painting over it, I'm not really certain how to get rid of it.
#5 -- I kinda don't like the font (omg you must be so tired to hear me say that :|)
I'll admit, it would be nice to have one that didn't leave you feeling it was wrong -- but that isn't the point here and it wouldn't be as helpful to me. Partially I chose the text icons because I knew they were wrong, even if I couldn't explain *how* they were wrong, but they're also representative of my text.
I know I need to work on it. If you said, "I love it all," that wouldn't really be helpful to me. You know? If what I wanted was, "Oh, shiny!" I'd have gone to pickmybest or published another round since the only comments one gets that way are of the love variety.
As for the transparency, I can't tell you how I dithered over that. So amusing since my usual weakness is text overpowering the icon but I was nervous about leaving it opaque and huge. Go figure.
I'm not certain how to change my mental outlook on text. I'm probably going to stick with textless more for now but continue playing behind the scenes. I expect one day my brain will go, "oh! snap!" and what I struggle with for now will seem obvious then. I see many hours of playing with text nobody will ever see ahead of me...
You're right about the crop, too. His ear detracts in this pic and I didn't even notice. I've started making as many as 10 crops from a pic so I can look at them all in one spot and pick the one I like best. This is time consuming and I hope my eye will develop quickly so that I can get it right the first or second time rather than on crop #8. *fingers crossed*
OK. You have done this beautiful, beautiful thing for me. I cannot begin to tell you how helpful this was or how much I appreciate your taking the time to look at each icon in detail and critique it. Very, very, very helpful and I'd offer to have your baby or something if only my own fear of fetuses didn't stop me. If I can ever do a favor - or thirty - for you, please do not hesitate to ask and it is yours.
*squishes madly and blows (kisses)*
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You know, actually knowing about the context helps a lot...and given what you just said, I think the icon reached its goal.
I do like the other attempt better, but it's less "hip hop"-ish, so I think you chose the right one. :-)
Landscapes are hard for me because I can never tell when they're "finished." I can go on playing forever.
Eh, I know what you mean. :-) I often make multiple versions of the same icon (or cap), so I totally know about being indecisive. ;-)
Now that I'm aware my text can be smaller and still legible, that opens new doors to me.
YAY!! :D:D:D
That was the lighting in the original pic and I tried to mute its effect because it is weird. Short of painting over it, I'm not really certain how to get rid of it.
Oh, well, sometimes the caps are just the way they are...the icon is gorgeous anyway and I'm probably the only one who noticed it...*iz weirdly picky*
I'll admit, it would be nice to have one that didn't leave you feeling it was wrong
Eh, just remember that I sort of forced myself to be the Devil's advocate (as we say), I was deliberately hyper critical, even when the icon was mostly fine. :-) That was the whole point, right?
OK. You have done this beautiful, beautiful thing for me. I cannot begin to tell you how helpful this was or how much I appreciate your taking the time to look at each icon in detail and critique it. Very, very, very helpful and I'd offer to have your baby or something if only my own fear of fetuses didn't stop me. If I can ever do a favor - or thirty - for you, please do not hesitate to ask and it is yours.
You know, this whole thing was actually quite helpful to me too. It forced me to justify and motivate my choices...when I make icons I don't do it "consciously"... I don't stop to think about WHY something works and something doesn't...I just do it because it looks pretty. ;-)
But now I sort of started to pay attention to this stuff and it's quite interesting. :-)
And btw, feel free to ask questions or...you know, anything I can do to help, I'd me more than happy to do it... and not just because your generous gift. :x:x:x
*loves*
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Man, you must really not like that icon because the other attempt is lame. *grins* The final icon actually had text on it; I offered up the textless version because I was trying to avoid my text issues. ;-)
I'm probably the only one who noticed it...*iz weirdly picky*
No, I don't you were alone. I'd been specifically asked in the past to icon this character (he's not my fave, so...). Yet the icon was utterly ignored when I published it. That's why I stuck him in -- to see if the critique turned up something I hadn't noticed. I guess that the weird white thing was too distracting? *shrug*
Eh, just remember that I sort of forced myself to be the Devil's advocate (as we say), I was deliberately hyper critical, even when the icon was mostly fine. :-) That was the whole point, right?
PRECISELY! I am in a rut and I need to break out of it. Part of doing that is getting down to the nitty gritty. I'm also looking to develop my eye and my way of seeing. This is not natural for me so I have to work at it. If what's wrong, even if it's just sort of wrong rather than OMG!wrong, isn't commented on, I'm unlikely to see it on my own. :|
And btw, feel free to ask questions or...you know, anything I can do to help, I'd me more than happy to do it
I might eventually ask for help on getting skin to glow as well as you do in b/w *points to icon* but I haven't exhausted all my options in trying. I'll hit a dead-end before I ask. :)
Oh! Are the caps you post at Queer Eyes the same caps you use in making your icons? I've been thinking about snagging a few and playing around to compare my b/w with yours. Starting with the exact same cap eliminates a lot of variables. (I'm not talking about making the same icons, obviously. This is for private practice/learning.) I'm always hypercritical of what I do but if I place it next to yours, I know when I'm getting it right.
*loves right back*
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Yep, they are. I actually cap them specifically to make the icons, then, since I already have them, I post them on my site in case someone wants to use them for their graphics, or just to stare at teh pretty. :-)
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