So You Say You Want Gabe To Beta Your Story, eh?
Everyone is doing these wonderful "how I write" entries lately, and really, when you're in such wonderful hands as furiosity, pushdragon, pir8fancier, minisinoo, calanthe and others, you can rest assured that you're in good hands. There's is little to nothing li'l ole Gabe can add to the mix that wouldn't simply be recapitulation of their ideas, only stated much less eloquently.
But Gabe must talk about something, right? Heaven forbid he just keeps his mouth shut and... oh, I dunno - WRITE SOMETHING FOR GOD'S SAKE?
So I decided to write about my beta'ing process, in case any one was interested.
Might as well, right? I mean, you have people talking about how they get their ideas, organize their ideas, present their ideas... but there's that missing process between creation and presentation that I think deserves a little bit of mention, no?
Well, then, let's just hop right down to it, shall we?
Gabe's Fool-Proof Beta Process (and he's the proof of the fool part!)
Selection.
Selection is the one aspect of beta'ing that I think even betas tend to not pay much attention to. How do you accept a story? How do you decide what story you will or will not beta? Some betas are gung-ho and will accept just about anything... at first. Then, the burn-out comes. And oh boy! does it come. If you are indiscriminate about assignments that you accept, then expect to get a lot of cringe-worthy stuff, and expect to get burnt out... quickly.
I read other former betas' complaints, and I know that at least 80% of them could have been dealt with pre-emptively by not accepting the fic in the first place. Adding to that, being willing to return the fic and say, "Nope, sorry... you and I are not working out; but good luck with your story," helps with a beta's ability to remain as fresh-faced as possible.
Heed me when I say: Establish - upfront - a solid set of rules and prerequisites that you'll use (mostly without fail) to judge whether or not you accept an assignment. Betas drop off quickly, it seems, but it doesn't have to be that way.
Enjoyment & Pre-Assessment. With Checkmated and the Quidditch Pitch, two archival sites that I beta at, I have the ability to preview the story in question before I accept the responsibility, so if I accept a fic from one of those two sites, I'm pretty sure that I like the story already. Always a plus.
It'd be nice to always be able to pre-read a story before I accept it, but I don't always have that luxury, and I have beta'd stories that I ended up ho-hum about.
Now, with my LJ-friends, I'm pretty much guaranteed to like their story, which is why I have an open-ended agreement to beta-read their story in the first place! Perfect Imagination is the one place where I'm basically throwing dice and hoping not to come Snake-Eyes! I get a summary and maybe a link to a previous story. That's it. Not much to go on. So Perfect Imagination is the exception to the pre-assessment rule; nevertheless, I have returned fics to the author unfinished when it became clear that we were not working out and I was not having fun working with them.
Ships? Do I have a set standard for selecting stories? Not really. I think I read primarily Harry/Draco, but I don't consider myself an H/D shipper. I like all sorts of pairings, including het and femmeslash, and take a special liking to tertiary and secondary characters. I tend to shy away from 'slice of life' stories, a branch of the Domesti-Drabble, because I like plot and they tend to not have any; hence, slice of life. Still, a fair few of my LJ friends write them - and write them well - and I know that they'll at least be enjoyable, so I'll do them when asked. Gladly.
Preparation. I've shied away from multi-chaptered fics from the archival sites unless there's a plot-outline the author can send my way. Not necessarily a detailed one, mind you, with every section of every chapter broken down. But definitely something in writing that let's me know that they've thought out the story to some sort of logical conclusion. If an author doesn't have that, especially on one of the archival spots, then I'm less likely to agree to beta the story. If it's a friend with a proven track record of follow-thru, then certainly. But not someone I don't know.
Past History? Fairly straight-forward. Do we have a history? Are we friended on LJ? Do we communicate a lot on one of the archival forums? Have we corresponded a lot via email? IM? Am I aware - and a fan - of your work, already? If the fic was already posted somewhere, have I read the story, found that I liked it and actually want to clean it up, grammatically...? My history with the writer, if any exists, is also a factor in whether or not I'll accept the story.
Really, those are it as far as things that I look for in a story. But one thing must be made clear: Me accepting the story and me keeping the story and completing the 'assignment' are two different things. And one way to definitely get me to drop the story is to fight me tooth-and-nail on my required corrections (we'll discuss the difference levels of 'corrections' later) and then use your supposed established fanbase as proof of why you don't have to worry about revisions and rewrites. I may write a separate "What Not To Do To Your Beta" later...
§
So, now that I've agreed to beta a story, what then?
Run-through versus Pass.
A run-through is, in essence, a single reading, straight through. I'll try and do two run-throughs before I begin any editing on the line-level.
First run-through: No interruptions (or as little as possible); no corrections (or as little as possible). I will correct major mistakes as I go (obvious "your" instead of "you're", sentences without ending punctuations, etc.), but nothing major.
Basically, I'm reading for my enjoyment, here. When I'm done with this first run-through, I ask myself if I understand what the author is trying to say, what the story is trying to be, and why the author chose the method and structure that she used. Because any confusion that I may have about those issues could most certainly be my fault, I run-through the fic one more time, also without serious line-editing.
Second run-through: Any questions raised by the first reading should be answered here, especially if my confusion is because I didn't read it well the first time, which can happen. If my confusion isn't cleared up with the second reading, however, then I start to ask the important questions: Are there characterization issues? Are there continuity problems, incld. canon issues? Are there flaccid word choices? Is the imagery not quite as crisp and clear? Is the sequence of events off? If it's supposed to be off, is this the sort of story where doing so actually takes away from the power of the story? Did the author leave anything out that probably should have been shown? Things like that.
Again, nothing is done at the line-level. These are all still very sweeping issues that a period or a comma or a 'drop the -ly adverb' won't fix.
I may email the author at this point, especially if these questions really need to be addressed. I mean, the next step is line-level editing, and if these major questions force you to do a major rewrite, then I'm wasting valuable time taking it to the next level when I'll have to do it all over again anyway. No, if I know that the story is in need of a major overhaul (beyond a scene or two), I will send it back the author at this point.
This is also where "what-if" scenarios may be given, or I'll try to think logically about a character's behaviour or actions.
Third run-through: Provided there's nothing story-wise that requires immediate consideration, we now go on to the the line-level editing, or some people call it 'proofing'. Whichever.
[+] Spelling
[+] Punctuation
[+] Basic Grammar
[+] Word choice
[+] Sentence Structure
[+] Paragraph Structure
At this point, I determine whether we are dealing with British English (BE) or American English (AE). If someone writes Harry Potter in American English, I'll discourage it, but I'm not anal about it. If they want to bear that cross, let 'em. Likewise, if you want to spell 'color' as 'colour' in your Star Wars, Buffy, or Supernatural fic, I won't quibble with it. I'll note it, acknowledge it, and let you know that some people will give you shit for it (and some have said that they'll refuse to read it), but the final say is yours - unless you're trying to get on to an archive that has specific rules about BE vs AE.
Likewise, I don't quibble about the Oxford Comma, which I love, or the word 'gotten', which I also love. Never mind that Rowling uses it occasionally in UK editions a fair few times, I acknowledge that Brits aren't fond of either, in general, and that using them in HP or DrW/TW fic may earn you Scowl-Points™. It's my duty as your beta to tell you these things.
Sentence structure and word choice are, of course, more a matter of style and preference. A lot of times, I label my 'corrections' as such within the document, so that the author knows that I object, but it's her call.
Example: (Now this is totally made up)
Running down the corridor, Draco stopped in front of the door. Reaching out to the door handle, he took a deep breath. Closing his eyes, Draco grasped the door handle and flung the door open.
There's two things that I would consider 'wrong' with the above sentence:
Firstly, each sentence begins with a clause that starts with the participle form of a verb. Running... Reaching... Closing... It's easy to write sentences like that because we instinctively want to be as economical with our sentences as possible. The [ verb-ing + verb ] structure allows that. We get two actions for one sentence. But if your paragraph consists of three or four sentences and they're all the same structure, then you run the risk of boring the reader.
Secondly, one could argue that you cannot run down a corridor and stop in front of a door at the same time. Using the participle form of a verb as part of a series of actions implies that you're doing it at the same time. The second sentence, however, is fine because you can reach out and breathe deeply at the same time. Same with closing your eyes and grasping a door handle. But the first sentence clearly requires a sequential 'list' (if you will) of actions.
Taking #1 and #2 in consideration, the first sentence (Running down the corridor, Draco stopped in front of the door.) is definitely the sentence that needs to be revised, and I would consider it a 'must-revise'. There's no debate there.
Draco ran down the corridor and stopped in front of the door.
( Don't worry! This won't turn into a Gabe's Grammar Choice lecture. I'm done! ;-p )
So now that I've read through the story three times, I send it back to you.
That's a 'pass'.
You sent me the fic; I've sent it back, usually labelled something like: Title-Story-Author-Gabe'sFirstPass.
What the author does from there is up to her. What I hope they'll do is look over everything first, ask any questions about the revisions/corrections, and challenge anything they think I did wrong before they start with their revision.
Now as anal as I may seem with the first-pass, I'm more so with my line-editing during the second-pass. Some twisted, paranoid part of me always wonders if an author is testing me. I always wonder if an author thinks I'm not paying as close attention now as I was before. So I try to make sure to look for all the little things. That's what the first run-through (technically the fourth) is for. The second (technically fifth) run-through is more of a read-thru. Does the story 'read' better, in accordance to what the author was going for? Are there any continuity, canon, or characterization concerns? Moreover, if there were major requests for revision, did the author take my advice? If so, did she use my revision or make her own? If she made her own, does it make sense? Is it more clear than her original sentence, or my original revision for that matter? I'll usually have my first-pass document open in case I need to refer back to it.
If an author doesn't revise a paragraph/sentence/whatever that I suggested, I hope that she explains why. Sometimes I'm misinterpreting the intent of the scene, and an author, in justifying themselves, tend to explain the scene in a way that will clear up any confusion that I may have had. Of course, if I still feel that the paragraph/sentence/whatever needs a bit of a rework, I'll recommend it, but here is where dialogue between me and author becomes more active, again.
Beyond that, the second-pass, I hope, smooths out all the kinks and rough-edges (unless the author wants it rough, of course, for style purposes). I also pay close attention to how the story is laid out, visually, at this point. Yes, I even concern myself with the presentation of the fic!
Fanfic that is posted on the internet deserves a bit of leeway, structure-wise, than printed stories. I don't recommend the spaced-out ellipses, for instance, because of potential spacing issues. Instead, I use the prefabricated ellipsis character, which treats the ellipsis as a single-character, and makes adjustments accordingly, should text or screen be re-sized. (The prefab ellipsis is the one WORD tries to create automatically most of the time when you type '...' .)
Also, I'm fond of white-space. I know 'white-space is good' is a recommendation even with traditional print, but I think it holds true even more with web-based publications. And it's for the author's own good, when you think about it: people tend to skip over über-long paragraphs, which means that they may skim over important information. So, even if the splitting the long paragraph means that you have, in essence, two paragraphs that are of the same 'topic', meh. Don't worry about it. Your readers will thank you for it; no one else will care.
Whether or not a story 'requires' a third-pass depends on the story itself and how comfortable the author is with her own revisions. Regardless, the third-pass is treated much like the second. Sometimes, a second-pass has revealed some hole in the system that requires a much-deeper revision. In that case, the author usually sends it back for a third look-over without me having to ask. And that's fine. Better safe than sorry, I say. Well... I'm not the only one who says it, but... never mind.
Brit-Picking?
Even if there was an award for "Best Brit-Picking by an American Beta", I'd be far from the best. I have a pretty good understanding of the differences in prepositional usage between BE and AE, and my ex-boyfriend, who is from Yorkshire but went to school in Derby, helps out a lot. He's admittedly a chav, which I love incorporating in Next Gen fics, but he's good for East Midlands, Brummie, Yorkshire, and Estuary colloqs and stuff.
(So when you read me saying "nowt" and "owt", that's his influence.)
So, I'll do a little spot checking here and there (mostly making sure the fic is using BE spelling, if applicable), but I always recommend using someone else - preferably a real Briton. hp_britglish, anyone? I love that comm!
Finally, one thing that I always do is remind the author why I liked the story. This may be last on my long list of babblings, but it's far from the last thing on my mind. If a line got a chuckle from me, then I put it there, right in the comments where it happened. Same with :lols: and :jaw-drop: and :awww: or any other positive reaction that a paragraph/sentence/whatever. If it inflates my boy-bits, then I put that in there, as well! Everyone loves compliments, and I'm very open and sincere with mine. Good sentences, word choices, dialogue, characterizations - good anything, really - deserves praise. Especially when an author gets back a story filled with the dreaded red font.
§
That's it, in a nutshell - albeit a rather long-winded nutshell. Good God, man! Where's my beta!!?!?!?!
But Gabe must talk about something, right? Heaven forbid he just keeps his mouth shut and... oh, I dunno - WRITE SOMETHING FOR GOD'S SAKE?
So I decided to write about my beta'ing process, in case any one was interested.
Might as well, right? I mean, you have people talking about how they get their ideas, organize their ideas, present their ideas... but there's that missing process between creation and presentation that I think deserves a little bit of mention, no?
Well, then, let's just hop right down to it, shall we?
Gabe's Fool-Proof Beta Process (and he's the proof of the fool part!)
Selection.
Selection is the one aspect of beta'ing that I think even betas tend to not pay much attention to. How do you accept a story? How do you decide what story you will or will not beta? Some betas are gung-ho and will accept just about anything... at first. Then, the burn-out comes. And oh boy! does it come. If you are indiscriminate about assignments that you accept, then expect to get a lot of cringe-worthy stuff, and expect to get burnt out... quickly.
I read other former betas' complaints, and I know that at least 80% of them could have been dealt with pre-emptively by not accepting the fic in the first place. Adding to that, being willing to return the fic and say, "Nope, sorry... you and I are not working out; but good luck with your story," helps with a beta's ability to remain as fresh-faced as possible.
Heed me when I say: Establish - upfront - a solid set of rules and prerequisites that you'll use (mostly without fail) to judge whether or not you accept an assignment. Betas drop off quickly, it seems, but it doesn't have to be that way.
Enjoyment & Pre-Assessment. With Checkmated and the Quidditch Pitch, two archival sites that I beta at, I have the ability to preview the story in question before I accept the responsibility, so if I accept a fic from one of those two sites, I'm pretty sure that I like the story already. Always a plus.
It'd be nice to always be able to pre-read a story before I accept it, but I don't always have that luxury, and I have beta'd stories that I ended up ho-hum about.
Now, with my LJ-friends, I'm pretty much guaranteed to like their story, which is why I have an open-ended agreement to beta-read their story in the first place! Perfect Imagination is the one place where I'm basically throwing dice and hoping not to come Snake-Eyes! I get a summary and maybe a link to a previous story. That's it. Not much to go on. So Perfect Imagination is the exception to the pre-assessment rule; nevertheless, I have returned fics to the author unfinished when it became clear that we were not working out and I was not having fun working with them.
Ships? Do I have a set standard for selecting stories? Not really. I think I read primarily Harry/Draco, but I don't consider myself an H/D shipper. I like all sorts of pairings, including het and femmeslash, and take a special liking to tertiary and secondary characters. I tend to shy away from 'slice of life' stories, a branch of the Domesti-Drabble, because I like plot and they tend to not have any; hence, slice of life. Still, a fair few of my LJ friends write them - and write them well - and I know that they'll at least be enjoyable, so I'll do them when asked. Gladly.
Preparation. I've shied away from multi-chaptered fics from the archival sites unless there's a plot-outline the author can send my way. Not necessarily a detailed one, mind you, with every section of every chapter broken down. But definitely something in writing that let's me know that they've thought out the story to some sort of logical conclusion. If an author doesn't have that, especially on one of the archival spots, then I'm less likely to agree to beta the story. If it's a friend with a proven track record of follow-thru, then certainly. But not someone I don't know.
Past History? Fairly straight-forward. Do we have a history? Are we friended on LJ? Do we communicate a lot on one of the archival forums? Have we corresponded a lot via email? IM? Am I aware - and a fan - of your work, already? If the fic was already posted somewhere, have I read the story, found that I liked it and actually want to clean it up, grammatically...? My history with the writer, if any exists, is also a factor in whether or not I'll accept the story.
Really, those are it as far as things that I look for in a story. But one thing must be made clear: Me accepting the story and me keeping the story and completing the 'assignment' are two different things. And one way to definitely get me to drop the story is to fight me tooth-and-nail on my required corrections (we'll discuss the difference levels of 'corrections' later) and then use your supposed established fanbase as proof of why you don't have to worry about revisions and rewrites. I may write a separate "What Not To Do To Your Beta" later...
§
So, now that I've agreed to beta a story, what then?
Run-through versus Pass.
A run-through is, in essence, a single reading, straight through. I'll try and do two run-throughs before I begin any editing on the line-level.
First run-through: No interruptions (or as little as possible); no corrections (or as little as possible). I will correct major mistakes as I go (obvious "your" instead of "you're", sentences without ending punctuations, etc.), but nothing major.
Basically, I'm reading for my enjoyment, here. When I'm done with this first run-through, I ask myself if I understand what the author is trying to say, what the story is trying to be, and why the author chose the method and structure that she used. Because any confusion that I may have about those issues could most certainly be my fault, I run-through the fic one more time, also without serious line-editing.
Second run-through: Any questions raised by the first reading should be answered here, especially if my confusion is because I didn't read it well the first time, which can happen. If my confusion isn't cleared up with the second reading, however, then I start to ask the important questions: Are there characterization issues? Are there continuity problems, incld. canon issues? Are there flaccid word choices? Is the imagery not quite as crisp and clear? Is the sequence of events off? If it's supposed to be off, is this the sort of story where doing so actually takes away from the power of the story? Did the author leave anything out that probably should have been shown? Things like that.
Again, nothing is done at the line-level. These are all still very sweeping issues that a period or a comma or a 'drop the -ly adverb' won't fix.
I may email the author at this point, especially if these questions really need to be addressed. I mean, the next step is line-level editing, and if these major questions force you to do a major rewrite, then I'm wasting valuable time taking it to the next level when I'll have to do it all over again anyway. No, if I know that the story is in need of a major overhaul (beyond a scene or two), I will send it back the author at this point.
This is also where "what-if" scenarios may be given, or I'll try to think logically about a character's behaviour or actions.
Third run-through: Provided there's nothing story-wise that requires immediate consideration, we now go on to the the line-level editing, or some people call it 'proofing'. Whichever.
[+] Spelling
[+] Punctuation
[+] Basic Grammar
[+] Word choice
[+] Sentence Structure
[+] Paragraph Structure
At this point, I determine whether we are dealing with British English (BE) or American English (AE). If someone writes Harry Potter in American English, I'll discourage it, but I'm not anal about it. If they want to bear that cross, let 'em. Likewise, if you want to spell 'color' as 'colour' in your Star Wars, Buffy, or Supernatural fic, I won't quibble with it. I'll note it, acknowledge it, and let you know that some people will give you shit for it (and some have said that they'll refuse to read it), but the final say is yours - unless you're trying to get on to an archive that has specific rules about BE vs AE.
Likewise, I don't quibble about the Oxford Comma, which I love, or the word 'gotten', which I also love. Never mind that Rowling uses it occasionally in UK editions a fair few times, I acknowledge that Brits aren't fond of either, in general, and that using them in HP or DrW/TW fic may earn you Scowl-Points™. It's my duty as your beta to tell you these things.
Sentence structure and word choice are, of course, more a matter of style and preference. A lot of times, I label my 'corrections' as such within the document, so that the author knows that I object, but it's her call.
Example: (Now this is totally made up)
Running down the corridor, Draco stopped in front of the door. Reaching out to the door handle, he took a deep breath. Closing his eyes, Draco grasped the door handle and flung the door open.
There's two things that I would consider 'wrong' with the above sentence:
Firstly, each sentence begins with a clause that starts with the participle form of a verb. Running... Reaching... Closing... It's easy to write sentences like that because we instinctively want to be as economical with our sentences as possible. The [ verb-ing + verb ] structure allows that. We get two actions for one sentence. But if your paragraph consists of three or four sentences and they're all the same structure, then you run the risk of boring the reader.
Secondly, one could argue that you cannot run down a corridor and stop in front of a door at the same time. Using the participle form of a verb as part of a series of actions implies that you're doing it at the same time. The second sentence, however, is fine because you can reach out and breathe deeply at the same time. Same with closing your eyes and grasping a door handle. But the first sentence clearly requires a sequential 'list' (if you will) of actions.
Taking #1 and #2 in consideration, the first sentence (Running down the corridor, Draco stopped in front of the door.) is definitely the sentence that needs to be revised, and I would consider it a 'must-revise'. There's no debate there.
Draco ran down the corridor and stopped in front of the door.
( Don't worry! This won't turn into a Gabe's Grammar Choice lecture. I'm done! ;-p )
So now that I've read through the story three times, I send it back to you.
That's a 'pass'.
You sent me the fic; I've sent it back, usually labelled something like: Title-Story-Author-Gabe'sFirstPass.
What the author does from there is up to her. What I hope they'll do is look over everything first, ask any questions about the revisions/corrections, and challenge anything they think I did wrong before they start with their revision.
Now as anal as I may seem with the first-pass, I'm more so with my line-editing during the second-pass. Some twisted, paranoid part of me always wonders if an author is testing me. I always wonder if an author thinks I'm not paying as close attention now as I was before. So I try to make sure to look for all the little things. That's what the first run-through (technically the fourth) is for. The second (technically fifth) run-through is more of a read-thru. Does the story 'read' better, in accordance to what the author was going for? Are there any continuity, canon, or characterization concerns? Moreover, if there were major requests for revision, did the author take my advice? If so, did she use my revision or make her own? If she made her own, does it make sense? Is it more clear than her original sentence, or my original revision for that matter? I'll usually have my first-pass document open in case I need to refer back to it.
If an author doesn't revise a paragraph/sentence/whatever that I suggested, I hope that she explains why. Sometimes I'm misinterpreting the intent of the scene, and an author, in justifying themselves, tend to explain the scene in a way that will clear up any confusion that I may have had. Of course, if I still feel that the paragraph/sentence/whatever needs a bit of a rework, I'll recommend it, but here is where dialogue between me and author becomes more active, again.
Beyond that, the second-pass, I hope, smooths out all the kinks and rough-edges (unless the author wants it rough, of course, for style purposes). I also pay close attention to how the story is laid out, visually, at this point. Yes, I even concern myself with the presentation of the fic!
Fanfic that is posted on the internet deserves a bit of leeway, structure-wise, than printed stories. I don't recommend the spaced-out ellipses, for instance, because of potential spacing issues. Instead, I use the prefabricated ellipsis character, which treats the ellipsis as a single-character, and makes adjustments accordingly, should text or screen be re-sized. (The prefab ellipsis is the one WORD tries to create automatically most of the time when you type '...' .)
Also, I'm fond of white-space. I know 'white-space is good' is a recommendation even with traditional print, but I think it holds true even more with web-based publications. And it's for the author's own good, when you think about it: people tend to skip over über-long paragraphs, which means that they may skim over important information. So, even if the splitting the long paragraph means that you have, in essence, two paragraphs that are of the same 'topic', meh. Don't worry about it. Your readers will thank you for it; no one else will care.
Whether or not a story 'requires' a third-pass depends on the story itself and how comfortable the author is with her own revisions. Regardless, the third-pass is treated much like the second. Sometimes, a second-pass has revealed some hole in the system that requires a much-deeper revision. In that case, the author usually sends it back for a third look-over without me having to ask. And that's fine. Better safe than sorry, I say. Well... I'm not the only one who says it, but... never mind.
Brit-Picking?
Even if there was an award for "Best Brit-Picking by an American Beta", I'd be far from the best. I have a pretty good understanding of the differences in prepositional usage between BE and AE, and my ex-boyfriend, who is from Yorkshire but went to school in Derby, helps out a lot. He's admittedly a chav, which I love incorporating in Next Gen fics, but he's good for East Midlands, Brummie, Yorkshire, and Estuary colloqs and stuff.
(So when you read me saying "nowt" and "owt", that's his influence.)
So, I'll do a little spot checking here and there (mostly making sure the fic is using BE spelling, if applicable), but I always recommend using someone else - preferably a real Briton. hp_britglish, anyone? I love that comm!
Finally, one thing that I always do is remind the author why I liked the story. This may be last on my long list of babblings, but it's far from the last thing on my mind. If a line got a chuckle from me, then I put it there, right in the comments where it happened. Same with :lols: and :jaw-drop: and :awww: or any other positive reaction that a paragraph/sentence/whatever. If it inflates my boy-bits, then I put that in there, as well! Everyone loves compliments, and I'm very open and sincere with mine. Good sentences, word choices, dialogue, characterizations - good anything, really - deserves praise. Especially when an author gets back a story filled with the dreaded red font.
§
That's it, in a nutshell - albeit a rather long-winded nutshell. Good God, man! Where's my beta!!?!?!?!