I think roque_clasique pretty much covered it, but briefly: there is a difference between fiction "written for" and marketed towards women and the much larger category of fiction written by women--that is, there is a difference between what is categorized as "women's literature" and literature written by women. Women don't write about different things from men. I guess I have a huge problem with people saying, "Women are this way" or "women have these interests", because I almost never identify with those comments, and that has never made me less of a woman; it's just hurt me and made me feel really . . . voiceless. I submit to you that you are saying that now, and I . . . ask you to consider that.
Anyway, it sounds to me like you just aren't a fan of literary fiction--though when I read your post, I figured, well, she must hate Marquez, since love, family, relationships, and the dreaded family saga are all that One Hundred Years Of Solitude is. Then I read further down the thread and saw that pretty much your entire "non-genre" list is magical realism. (And gahhhhh, there's another difficult categorical term. Magical realism is considered "non-genre" because it tends to be literary, and yet I'm hard pressed to really see the difference between well-written urban fantasy and magical realism. I'm not a fan of most "literary fiction" either [except that I love most pre-twentieth century works without reservation, for some reason], but I love magical realism. BECAUSE IT HAS MAGIC IN IT. So whatever, idk.)
Anyway, as far as non-realism goes, might I second the recs for both Toni Morrison and Virginia Woolf. My first Morrison book was Beloved, which I don't rec as a starter. It's an excellent book, really hard-hitting emotionally, but it's just so difficult to read. And although it says many important things, I couldn't help feeling the same thing I do when I read other current books about tough issues, and that's that someone's writing that book to write about Tough Issues, and not to tell a story. The story is excellent! But the subject matter is just so difficult that that feeling wouldn't go away. Instead, I would start with Jazz, which just might be my all time favorite book. It's certainly about tough issues too, but man, it did not feel that way--in just the way To Kill A Mockingbird doesn't feel that way, but even better. It begins with murder. Go fer it.
Woolf is kind of famous for lacking action in her stories, but you may be interested in Orlando. It's about a man in the seventeenth century who is immortal and is a female by the nineteenth century due to changing perceptions of gender. Not only is it adventurous and magical, it touches on the subject about which you are speaking.
It's all very confusing, and I'm starting to think there are hidden sub-genres of fiction based on book clubs and people like Gina Bellefante, who make grand sweeping statements about 'what women readers want' and ruin it for the rest of us. (Favorite quote: ' While I do not doubt that there are women in the world who read books like Mr. Martin’s, I can honestly say that I have never met a single woman who has stood up in indignation at her book club and refused to read the latest from Lorrie Moore unless everyone agreed to “The Hobbit” first.')
So now I'm refining my thesis in favor of culturally mitigated ideas of female-ness and the demographics who embrace it, and who has buying clout, etc. I'm thinking there's a research paper in there somewhere, and it's kind of too bad I won't have time to construct a real experiment. And maybe the term I'm looking for isn't 'women's lit' so much as 'book club lit.'
Or maybe there's another answer. I need to get a larger sample and compare them for common threads.
I can give old Toni Morrison a try. I mean I respect her based on what I've heard at least. She seems like a writer with gravitas.
m hard pressed to really see the difference between well-written urban fantasy and magical realism
I feel this way as well. It's such a thin line to walk and I don't think it's a coincidence that I favor magical realism and science fiction. And it took me a million years to read 100 years (hah!) because of all the characters and what-all. But I recognized after finishing it that it was significant, and man do I love his prose.
I guess I have a huge problem with people saying, "Women are this way" or "women have these interests"
I'm working on that. A big part of the reason I make these sorts of posts is that they invite comment, which is great, because how else can I examine my own attitudes? And I've had some interesting ideas sent my way. It hasn't changed my life experiences, or my feelings about the cultural divide between women who embrace wholly the current accepted (and rewarded) notion of femininity, and those on the outskirts, who are usually socially sanctioned for not doing so. But it helps a lot to try hard to look at people who I've always considered irreconcilably different to me and try to see their POV. It isn't easy, but if it was it wouldn't inspire so much passion. It's *hard* to look at other people--and be looked at by other people--and understand them, especially if you're on the outside trying to figure them out. And I think it will help me emotionally and intellectually connect to people better IRL. God knows it wouldn't hurt me to do that.
Overall, I feel this has been a positive experience. Thanks for taking the time to comment too!
Anyway, it sounds to me like you just aren't a fan of literary fiction--though when I read your post, I figured, well, she must hate Marquez, since love, family, relationships, and the dreaded family saga are all that One Hundred Years Of Solitude is. Then I read further down the thread and saw that pretty much your entire "non-genre" list is magical realism. (And gahhhhh, there's another difficult categorical term. Magical realism is considered "non-genre" because it tends to be literary, and yet I'm hard pressed to really see the difference between well-written urban fantasy and magical realism. I'm not a fan of most "literary fiction" either [except that I love most pre-twentieth century works without reservation, for some reason], but I love magical realism. BECAUSE IT HAS MAGIC IN IT. So whatever, idk.)
Anyway, as far as non-realism goes, might I second the recs for both Toni Morrison and Virginia Woolf. My first Morrison book was Beloved, which I don't rec as a starter. It's an excellent book, really hard-hitting emotionally, but it's just so difficult to read. And although it says many important things, I couldn't help feeling the same thing I do when I read other current books about tough issues, and that's that someone's writing that book to write about Tough Issues, and not to tell a story. The story is excellent! But the subject matter is just so difficult that that feeling wouldn't go away. Instead, I would start with Jazz, which just might be my all time favorite book. It's certainly about tough issues too, but man, it did not feel that way--in just the way To Kill A Mockingbird doesn't feel that way, but even better. It begins with murder. Go fer it.
Woolf is kind of famous for lacking action in her stories, but you may be interested in Orlando. It's about a man in the seventeenth century who is immortal and is a female by the nineteenth century due to changing perceptions of gender. Not only is it adventurous and magical, it touches on the subject about which you are speaking.
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So now I'm refining my thesis in favor of culturally mitigated ideas of female-ness and the demographics who embrace it, and who has buying clout, etc. I'm thinking there's a research paper in there somewhere, and it's kind of too bad I won't have time to construct a real experiment. And maybe the term I'm looking for isn't 'women's lit' so much as 'book club lit.'
Or maybe there's another answer. I need to get a larger sample and compare them for common threads.
I can give old Toni Morrison a try. I mean I respect her based on what I've heard at least. She seems like a writer with gravitas.
m hard pressed to really see the difference between well-written urban fantasy and magical realism
I feel this way as well. It's such a thin line to walk and I don't think it's a coincidence that I favor magical realism and science fiction. And it took me a million years to read 100 years (hah!) because of all the characters and what-all. But I recognized after finishing it that it was significant, and man do I love his prose.
I guess I have a huge problem with people saying, "Women are this way" or "women have these interests"
I'm working on that. A big part of the reason I make these sorts of posts is that they invite comment, which is great, because how else can I examine my own attitudes? And I've had some interesting ideas sent my way. It hasn't changed my life experiences, or my feelings about the cultural divide between women who embrace wholly the current accepted (and rewarded) notion of femininity, and those on the outskirts, who are usually socially sanctioned for not doing so. But it helps a lot to try hard to look at people who I've always considered irreconcilably different to me and try to see their POV. It isn't easy, but if it was it wouldn't inspire so much passion. It's *hard* to look at other people--and be looked at by other people--and understand them, especially if you're on the outside trying to figure them out. And I think it will help me emotionally and intellectually connect to people better IRL. God knows it wouldn't hurt me to do that.
Overall, I feel this has been a positive experience. Thanks for taking the time to comment too!
Reply
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