Hail Homo Viator! Ienz Fieht! (ok, so i dont know german)homoviatorJanuary 24 2004, 00:57:43 UTC
lol, i never thought i'd be compared to hitler, and it being done as a compliment.
But its not too bad you have your own will. I in fact encourage you to keep your will. I would rather you be an atheist or agnostic (i guess you're the latter) by your will than a Christian because i want you to. It is not by other people we should have our will bent. I've never agreed to peer-pressure and another fortunate outcome of my non-social past is that i never became familiar, upclose and personal, with peer-pressure, thus growing up without it becoming much of a factor on how i should be or think. Did you ever think that all you had to do is look around and you'll see the proof of God everywhere? All the intricate details of a human being, much less the world or space beyond it, is a miracle to exist. Especially since its all on some balance. Just study the human body and you'll see how amazing your body has to be to continue to live. That are so many factors, and by lessening one of them by a small degree you could die. Similarly is the universe, that by simply taking away one planet, it could cause a chain reaction that could destroy the universe.
The whole free will thing is a demonstration of how God wants you. He doesnt want you to be forced to pick Him, He wants you to chose to pursue Him. But if He shows you beyond a doubt, where's the choice in that? He shows you enough to make you think its possible, but beyond that its up to you.
The whole Bible is basically a love letter. If you study it from front to end, you should be able to see it.
Say there's this guy interested in this girl. How much does she have to know about him before she agrees to go on a date? She'll never know anything beyond a doubt about this guy, so should she never go out with him?
As the Bible says that we were created in God's image, i think what it means is that we have a lot of qualities (altho on a finite scale) that God has. The desire to feel accepted, needed, loved, appreciated. Although someone doesnt actually NEED me, but then i wasn't behind their design and creation.
Similar to your appreciation, i do appreciate that you actually spent the time and effort to read everything and leave notes. If my arguments about your points are illogical, i hope you will point them out and tell me why. I really do believe i'm being objective, but of course i'm not looking at myself from the outside.
And again, i have to say that even if God doesn't exist, He's already given me a lot and continues to do so. God, real or not, has given me a sense of purpose, a sense of security, a sense of self-worth. It is through God do have this desire for Truth and Love. To both share and find. God, real or not, has given me a content and happy life.
And lastly, i have to say you're by far the most open-minded nonChristian i've ever discovered (i say discovered because maybe someone i've run into but didnt get to know was more openminded). It truly is a pleasure.
Re: Hail Homo Viator! Ienz Fieht! (ok, so i dont know german)akui_January 25 2004, 21:51:38 UTC
yeah the human body is amazing and every little piece of it was evolved for a reason. and some of those reasons are no longer relevant, but they're still in us. so going with your earlier theory that god lets evolution happen we're just going to skip over that. we have a tiny little organ designed for digesting sand.. did you know that?
if a boy likes a girl he should spend time with him and see what he's like before dating him of course, but once she's "found out" about him, she shouldn't marry him for ever and ever. she should court him and see where it goes. if it works, so be it. if not, it's done, it's over. i courted the church for 10 years or so. it just didn't work out, so we parted ways with what i assume are no hard feelings.
and i'm glad you've found positives in christianity, but this is probably my number one reason for speaking against it. you could find the same things in the real physical world. i promise they're out there. i forgot to put this into one of my posts earlier but this post reminded me. i try to live as a god to other people. not claiming to be god, but i try to be strong, understanding, multi-faceted, dependable. i try to be everything to people that i feel are worth my time. and i've done it. it was to my little angel that i said i try to be the guy that girly is singing about in My Immortal. i will always be there for you, you can turn your back on me all you want but i refuse. you do what you want, and when you're ready for me i will be here, i will never turn my back on you. she asked me if i thought i could do that and i told her i could. and i have. and i do and i am and all that crap. i don't feel that bringing in goodness from an outside source is a particularly healthy way to live. your goodness should come from within, from *just* you. not from god within you. and how you bring that goodness into yourself is up to you, but there are plenty of ways to have goodness in your life without resorting to god, in my experience anyway.
Not the only sourcehomoviatorFebruary 3 2004, 04:13:32 UTC
Heh, didnt know about that organ. I think that's funny.
Yeah, well i did not mean for that metaphor to go that far. I'm not sure if there actually is a perfect metaphor... you obviously can take them farther than they're meant (like if i said you resemble a pine cone in your potential).
And no, i dont claim you can't find peace, love, content, or etc from other places. I dont think such things as those are exclusive to Christianity, but rather its more potent coming from their true source, and is how its supposed to be.
And i do think every person has a potential to be good or bad... Christianity doesn't say its the only way to live a 'good' life, but rather its the right way. Not because you can't find peace or be a good person another way, but because its the best way. And of course because Christ is the only way to heaven.
Re: Not the only sourceakui_February 7 2004, 20:46:39 UTC
well maybe i just don't believe in having extraneous things around wasting my time. if i can find all the positives to christianity in the real world, with none of the negatives (as i see them) then i would rather do that. even if it is a less "pure" feeling or whatever you're trying to say.
Wasting timehomoviatorFebruary 14 2004, 23:32:26 UTC
Yeah, i'm the same way... i hate wasting my time. Arguing for instance... the purpose of arguing is to prove that you're right (or at least not wrong). So i dont believe in arguing. Discussions on the other hand, i feel are conversations where the two have a mutual goal.
i guess we have different definitions of arguing. a discussion is simply people talking, a broad category of talking between any number of people. arguing is people taking sides and trying to both understand the other side and make the other side understand their position, while of course trying to win them over. anyway, i call this, what we're doing here arguing, but that's entirely moot.
But its not too bad you have your own will. I in fact encourage you to keep your will. I would rather you be an atheist or agnostic (i guess you're the latter) by your will than a Christian because i want you to. It is not by other people we should have our will bent. I've never agreed to peer-pressure and another fortunate outcome of my non-social past is that i never became familiar, upclose and personal, with peer-pressure, thus growing up without it becoming much of a factor on how i should be or think.
Did you ever think that all you had to do is look around and you'll see the proof of God everywhere? All the intricate details of a human being, much less the world or space beyond it, is a miracle to exist. Especially since its all on some balance. Just study the human body and you'll see how amazing your body has to be to continue to live. That are so many factors, and by lessening one of them by a small degree you could die. Similarly is the universe, that by simply taking away one planet, it could cause a chain reaction that could destroy the universe.
The whole free will thing is a demonstration of how God wants you. He doesnt want you to be forced to pick Him, He wants you to chose to pursue Him. But if He shows you beyond a doubt, where's the choice in that? He shows you enough to make you think its possible, but beyond that its up to you.
The whole Bible is basically a love letter. If you study it from front to end, you should be able to see it.
Say there's this guy interested in this girl. How much does she have to know about him before she agrees to go on a date? She'll never know anything beyond a doubt about this guy, so should she never go out with him?
As the Bible says that we were created in God's image, i think what it means is that we have a lot of qualities (altho on a finite scale) that God has. The desire to feel accepted, needed, loved, appreciated. Although someone doesnt actually NEED me, but then i wasn't behind their design and creation.
Similar to your appreciation, i do appreciate that you actually spent the time and effort to read everything and leave notes. If my arguments about your points are illogical, i hope you will point them out and tell me why. I really do believe i'm being objective, but of course i'm not looking at myself from the outside.
And again, i have to say that even if God doesn't exist, He's already given me a lot and continues to do so. God, real or not, has given me a sense of purpose, a sense of security, a sense of self-worth. It is through God do have this desire for Truth and Love. To both share and find. God, real or not, has given me a content and happy life.
And lastly, i have to say you're by far the most open-minded nonChristian i've ever discovered (i say discovered because maybe someone i've run into but didnt get to know was more openminded). It truly is a pleasure.
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if a boy likes a girl he should spend time with him and see what he's like before dating him of course, but once she's "found out" about him, she shouldn't marry him for ever and ever. she should court him and see where it goes. if it works, so be it. if not, it's done, it's over. i courted the church for 10 years or so. it just didn't work out, so we parted ways with what i assume are no hard feelings.
and i'm glad you've found positives in christianity, but this is probably my number one reason for speaking against it. you could find the same things in the real physical world. i promise they're out there. i forgot to put this into one of my posts earlier but this post reminded me. i try to live as a god to other people. not claiming to be god, but i try to be strong, understanding, multi-faceted, dependable. i try to be everything to people that i feel are worth my time. and i've done it. it was to my little angel that i said i try to be the guy that girly is singing about in My Immortal. i will always be there for you, you can turn your back on me all you want but i refuse. you do what you want, and when you're ready for me i will be here, i will never turn my back on you. she asked me if i thought i could do that and i told her i could. and i have. and i do and i am and all that crap. i don't feel that bringing in goodness from an outside source is a particularly healthy way to live. your goodness should come from within, from *just* you. not from god within you. and how you bring that goodness into yourself is up to you, but there are plenty of ways to have goodness in your life without resorting to god, in my experience anyway.
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Yeah, well i did not mean for that metaphor to go that far. I'm not sure if there actually is a perfect metaphor... you obviously can take them farther than they're meant (like if i said you resemble a pine cone in your potential).
And no, i dont claim you can't find peace, love, content, or etc from other places. I dont think such things as those are exclusive to Christianity, but rather its more potent coming from their true source, and is how its supposed to be.
And i do think every person has a potential to be good or bad... Christianity doesn't say its the only way to live a 'good' life, but rather its the right way. Not because you can't find peace or be a good person another way, but because its the best way. And of course because Christ is the only way to heaven.
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So do you have a word for when two people are arguing/discussing/whatever, but one or both parties refuses to be wrong, even if they are?
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