You and the Autostraddle girls share a very similar sense of humour, so while it's a heck of a coincidence, your friendship with them doesn't surprise me. I FLOVE their site, it's witty, fun, snarky, a little snide, and doesn't take itself so seriously. Which pretty much sums you up as well ;). Sometimes gay sites are so busy whining and being self righteous they forget all the fun stuff ie- MAKING IT WORK WITH LADIES. I love their picture galleries. Good tims.
The sites run by a bunch of Americans, right? At some stage I have to pin you down and get your history because it seems like you've globe trotted plenty (and somewhere along the snared yourself a foxy American wife, so, kudos).
Naomi's storyline was handled with impressive amount of depth esp. since her screen time wasn't huge. Certainly not comparable to Emily/Cook/JJ/Freddie. I don't think the bedside talk with Emily was definitive, because I don't buy Naomi's insipid argument "I like only boys...apart from you" when we've seen how much Naomi wants/cares for Emily. She wants ALL of her and that includes her magical vagina. What shifts me slightly to the bi column is her interactions with Cook with are laced with sexual tension. That may be down to teh Loveless's and Jack's chemistry, because without it Naomi would come across just as gay as Emily did.
I completely agree Emily's reaction to Naomi's potential bisexuality was refreshing (I hope all lesbos take note). Less refreshing was Ems trying to brow beat Naomi going to the ball with her, but that's a whole different topic so I'll shut up now.
Btw, are you feeling better? Have you gotten over the worst of it yet? Swine flu: Nothing like Oink, huh?
It is run by a bunch of Americans, but I don't know any of them through um, regular globe-trotting exploits; just life-long gay stuff on the internets. It's mostly the podcast that B. referenced below, actually, but L knows most of these girls in real life as well what with it being easier to meet up with people if you don't live on a different continent. [Just sayin'.]
The foxy American wife thought I was a retard at first glance and then got to know me better primarily through one of the chicks who runs Autostraddle (Laneia, better known to both of us as Green) and well, you know, long story short, MARRIAGE. :)
Now, with the pleasantries out of the way, allow me to get on my "I fucking hate discussions about sexual orientation from limited perspectives" soapbox for a minute. Honestly, the way you're discussing Naomi's interest in either Emily OR boys is so debilitating to people who don't base their sexual orientation or identity on sexual chemistry that I don't even really know where to start. First of all, having legitimate feelings for A GIRL makes her BISEXUAL rather than STRAIGHT, not GAY rather than STRAIGHT. There's nothing in the show aside from her words that tells us whether or not she likes boys, but the idea that she actually has to either be less interested in Emily's vagina to be bisexual, or more interested in fucking a bunch of other boys = WTF?
I have issues with the way you're approaching this situation because you don't have to act on a feeling to have it, and your sexuality isn't exclusively made up of primal urges to fuck someone. If Naomi never wants to be in a relationship with a boy, but will sleep with one, I'll still think of her as being gay. If she never wants to be in a relationship with Emily but will fuck her once or twice, I would never think of her as being gay. Sexuality is as much about the choices you make in living your life as it is about your natural inclinations, and from what we know about Naomi, she chose Emily once (1 point for the girl column) and has stated at various points that if not for Emily, she would be choosing boys (10 million points for the boy column).
Just, lol, please don't use her interest in Emily as an indicator of anything else--it isn't one! So she fancies this one girl; enough to sleep with her. Does it mean that she's suddenly a vagina hobbyist? Who knows! If the girl says she likes boys, she likes boys, full stop. It doesn't matter if she's grinding up against them in her sleep or not doing any of the such because she happens to be IN LOVE with A GIRL right now; if that's what she's saying, that IS what she IS!
[/rant! SORRY, SENSITIVE SUBJECT]
Finally, re: swine flu: has reduced to just a cough now. I feel miles better!
First of all, having legitimate feelings for A GIRL makes her BISEXUAL rather than STRAIGHT, not GAY rather than STRAIGHT
My interpretation of her sexuality (which everyone seems to agree is ambiguous) is she's bi. Her discussion with Emily in episode nine is not a definitive statement of her sexuality to me. Ergo "maybe I only like boys, apart from you". Noami hasn't been grappling with this issue for as long as Emily has so all I get from this conversation is Naomi is a big ball of confusion. Why I lean towards bi is Naomi's chemistry with Cook, because I always thought there would be a possibility of something there (be it a fling, or maybe a relationship if they both grew up some) if Emily wasn't in the picture. It's not her words to me, but her actions which slant me one way or another.
but the idea that she actually has to either be less interested in Emily's vagina to be bisexual, or more interested in fucking a bunch of other boys = WTF
I'm not sure where you get this interpretation. Regardless, that's not what I was meaning to convey at all (and it's also COMPLETELY against what I think bisexuality is, so, no). Was this because I said I'm I don't believe in "I would be in a gay relationship with one person in the world, that means you mini Fitch, but is otherwise completely heterosexual" thing? I've never come across it, and perhaps it exists, but as a viewer that's not how I interpret Naomi's sexuality. The episode nine conversation conveyed nothing concrete. Which I applaud the show for- I think that reaction is entirely feasible for a 17 year old. I think it's probable she's attracted to both, although we won't know anything for sure unless we see her in a relationship with a boy (if that ever happens, and I doubt we will. So, in many ways, this discussion is academic).
Sexuality is as much about the choices you make in living your life as it is about your natural inclinations, and from what we know about Naomi, she chose Emily once (1 point for the girl column) and has stated at various points that if not for Emily, she would be choosing boys
I completely agree with this (my problem with Emily's hook up with JJ was based on plot wtfuckery and a desire for JJ to get laid by a girl who actually wants on him). It never made me think Emily is any less of a great big homo. I guess where our differences lie is I don't take Naomi's word as gospel- it's really unclear whether she is gay or bi. That discussion in nine, to me, conveyed Naomi's deep and compelling confusion about the whole thing. Which is entirely natural, and this whole conversation is in a bit of a frivolous spirit, since it fundamentally doesn't matter. Naomi loves Emily. That's all we can really go off, and really, that's all that matters.
I'm glad you're feeling better, I was a bit worried there for a while.
I don't think the bedside talk with Emily was definitive, because I don't buy Naomi's insipid argument "I like only boys...apart from you" when we've seen how much Naomi wants/cares for Emily. She wants ALL of her and that includes her magical vagina.
I still have no idea what you were hoping to convey with this, but what you actually said was because she likes Emily so much the idea that she likes boys is unconvincing? Or because she likes vagina she can't... like boys? Or something?
Anyway, as it turns out I don't have to strangle you for being completely wrong (;)) so we'll leave it be. I just don't think that Naomi is confused in the way you do. "Maybe I only like boys apart from you" to me is a take on the extent to which she likes girls, not the extent to which she likes boys, as that is the solid backdrop. She doesn't want to commit to any sort of public statement on being "less than straight" because she has no idea if she'll ever feel like this about girls other than Emily. That's part of a coming out process, sure, but it's not the same process as the one that most lesbians go through, where they realize that they actually don't feel anything about boys. She knows how she feels about them; it's the girls that confuse her. But, you obviously have a wholly different take on that scene and I'm not feeling well enough to shout at you in a fascist fashion about how you're wrong, so shake hands and walk away?
No, it's cool dude, that paragraph was poorly phrased. My intention was to state I can feasibly see Naomi being either gay or bi, but I don't see Naomi as being 100% heterosexual except when it comes to Emily. You know the whole- "I don't fancy anyone else of the same gender on the whole planet except you" thing. I don't even know if that's possible, and it blows my mind a little to contemplate it. See, the "Naomi is really straight" is another interpretation of Naomi's sexuality I've seen floating around in various forums and it's only interpretation I don't agree with. Often people tack that argument onto a passionate defense of a Naomi/Cook coupling, so you know *shrug*
Ack. I hope that made sense, I'm super cranky and tired and even a new chapter of Chompy Chomp hasn't made me feel better (A power outtage made me lose a whole news article due tomorrow, and instead of feeling angry, I just feel sad about, which is a sure sign I need sleep )
But, you obviously have a wholly different take on that scene and I'm not feeling well enough to shout at you in a fascist fashion about how you're wrong, so shake hands and walk away?
LOL, I think you and I mostly agree. But whatever, internet hand shake it is. I'm not phased by the argument anyway- my best friend is studying law, and that swotty girl almost always outflanks me in arguments, even when I'm sodding right. I won last time, but only because she said something so stupid she couldn't really defend it, even with her nefarious grasp of the English language. I felt suitably smug about the whole thing.
is someone going to post about the new spoilers? They're super interesting
You thought they were interesting? I didn't learn much aside from Naomi's cooch snorkling, which ABOUT TIME, but other than that, I don't know!
And dude, it's fine, I get what you mean now and I in no way aimed to state that Naomi is 100% straight because duh, that's as impossible to get from the text as 100% gay is. I don't understand people who have such difficulties with just accepting that she's somewhere on the fence that they feel the need to reinterpret the canon to make her one or the other, because she can so easily be both or neither!
Yeah, nothing to do with the bisexual themed mensa meeting you guys had. But Laura knows Riese et all in real life? Because... had you presented me with that info this time 18 months ago I would have, idk, licked Laura's face and asked her to pass my sentiments on to Riese. Luckily, my internet crush has abated somewhat, and I now realise that would be a touch odd.
Mostly--can I just ask if you and C2 (aka the Pants Receiver? I hope your weekend went well, in other words) had a lingering cough for a while after you fell ill, or if you just had wholly different symptoms. *twiddles thumbs*
The sites run by a bunch of Americans, right? At some stage I have to pin you down and get your history because it seems like you've globe trotted plenty (and somewhere along the snared yourself a foxy American wife, so, kudos).
Naomi's storyline was handled with impressive amount of depth esp. since her screen time wasn't huge. Certainly not comparable to Emily/Cook/JJ/Freddie. I don't think the bedside talk with Emily was definitive, because I don't buy Naomi's insipid argument "I like only boys...apart from you" when we've seen how much Naomi wants/cares for Emily. She wants ALL of her and that includes her magical vagina. What shifts me slightly to the bi column is her interactions with Cook with are laced with sexual tension. That may be down to teh Loveless's and Jack's chemistry, because without it Naomi would come across just as gay as Emily did.
I completely agree Emily's reaction to Naomi's potential bisexuality was refreshing (I hope all lesbos take note). Less refreshing was Ems trying to brow beat Naomi going to the ball with her, but that's a whole different topic so I'll shut up now.
Btw, are you feeling better? Have you gotten over the worst of it yet? Swine flu: Nothing like Oink, huh?
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The foxy American wife thought I was a retard at first glance and then got to know me better primarily through one of the chicks who runs Autostraddle (Laneia, better known to both of us as Green) and well, you know, long story short, MARRIAGE. :)
Now, with the pleasantries out of the way, allow me to get on my "I fucking hate discussions about sexual orientation from limited perspectives" soapbox for a minute. Honestly, the way you're discussing Naomi's interest in either Emily OR boys is so debilitating to people who don't base their sexual orientation or identity on sexual chemistry that I don't even really know where to start. First of all, having legitimate feelings for A GIRL makes her BISEXUAL rather than STRAIGHT, not GAY rather than STRAIGHT. There's nothing in the show aside from her words that tells us whether or not she likes boys, but the idea that she actually has to either be less interested in Emily's vagina to be bisexual, or more interested in fucking a bunch of other boys = WTF?
I have issues with the way you're approaching this situation because you don't have to act on a feeling to have it, and your sexuality isn't exclusively made up of primal urges to fuck someone. If Naomi never wants to be in a relationship with a boy, but will sleep with one, I'll still think of her as being gay. If she never wants to be in a relationship with Emily but will fuck her once or twice, I would never think of her as being gay. Sexuality is as much about the choices you make in living your life as it is about your natural inclinations, and from what we know about Naomi, she chose Emily once (1 point for the girl column) and has stated at various points that if not for Emily, she would be choosing boys (10 million points for the boy column).
Just, lol, please don't use her interest in Emily as an indicator of anything else--it isn't one! So she fancies this one girl; enough to sleep with her. Does it mean that she's suddenly a vagina hobbyist? Who knows! If the girl says she likes boys, she likes boys, full stop. It doesn't matter if she's grinding up against them in her sleep or not doing any of the such because she happens to be IN LOVE with A GIRL right now; if that's what she's saying, that IS what she IS!
[/rant! SORRY, SENSITIVE SUBJECT]
Finally, re: swine flu: has reduced to just a cough now. I feel miles better!
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My interpretation of her sexuality (which everyone seems to agree is ambiguous) is she's bi. Her discussion with Emily in episode nine is not a definitive statement of her sexuality to me. Ergo "maybe I only like boys, apart from you". Noami hasn't been grappling with this issue for as long as Emily has so all I get from this conversation is Naomi is a big ball of confusion. Why I lean towards bi is Naomi's chemistry with Cook, because I always thought there would be a possibility of something there (be it a fling, or maybe a relationship if they both grew up some) if Emily wasn't in the picture. It's not her words to me, but her actions which slant me one way or another.
but the idea that she actually has to either be less interested in Emily's vagina to be bisexual, or more interested in fucking a bunch of other boys = WTF
I'm not sure where you get this interpretation. Regardless, that's not what I was meaning to convey at all (and it's also COMPLETELY against what I think bisexuality is, so, no). Was this because I said I'm I don't believe in "I would be in a gay relationship with one person in the world, that means you mini Fitch, but is otherwise completely heterosexual" thing? I've never come across it, and perhaps it exists, but as a viewer that's not how I interpret Naomi's sexuality. The episode nine conversation conveyed nothing concrete. Which I applaud the show for- I think that reaction is entirely feasible for a 17 year old. I think it's probable she's attracted to both, although we won't know anything for sure unless we see her in a relationship with a boy (if that ever happens, and I doubt we will. So, in many ways, this discussion is academic).
Sexuality is as much about the choices you make in living your life as it is about your natural inclinations, and from what we know about Naomi, she chose Emily once (1 point for the girl column) and has stated at various points that if not for Emily, she would be choosing boys
I completely agree with this (my problem with Emily's hook up with JJ was based on plot wtfuckery and a desire for JJ to get laid by a girl who actually wants on him). It never made me think Emily is any less of a great big homo.
I guess where our differences lie is I don't take Naomi's word as gospel- it's really unclear whether she is gay or bi. That discussion in nine, to me, conveyed Naomi's deep and compelling confusion about the whole thing. Which is entirely natural, and this whole conversation is in a bit of a frivolous spirit, since it fundamentally doesn't matter. Naomi loves Emily. That's all we can really go off, and really, that's all that matters.
I'm glad you're feeling better, I was a bit worried there for a while.
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I don't think the bedside talk with Emily was definitive, because I don't buy Naomi's insipid argument "I like only boys...apart from you" when we've seen how much Naomi wants/cares for Emily. She wants ALL of her and that includes her magical vagina.
I still have no idea what you were hoping to convey with this, but what you actually said was because she likes Emily so much the idea that she likes boys is unconvincing? Or because she likes vagina she can't... like boys? Or something?
Anyway, as it turns out I don't have to strangle you for being completely wrong (;)) so we'll leave it be. I just don't think that Naomi is confused in the way you do. "Maybe I only like boys apart from you" to me is a take on the extent to which she likes girls, not the extent to which she likes boys, as that is the solid backdrop. She doesn't want to commit to any sort of public statement on being "less than straight" because she has no idea if she'll ever feel like this about girls other than Emily. That's part of a coming out process, sure, but it's not the same process as the one that most lesbians go through, where they realize that they actually don't feel anything about boys. She knows how she feels about them; it's the girls that confuse her. But, you obviously have a wholly different take on that scene and I'm not feeling well enough to shout at you in a fascist fashion about how you're wrong, so shake hands and walk away?
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Ack. I hope that made sense, I'm super cranky and tired and even a new chapter of Chompy Chomp hasn't made me feel better (A power outtage made me lose a whole news article due tomorrow, and instead of feeling angry, I just feel sad about, which is a sure sign I need sleep )
But, you obviously have a wholly different take on that scene and I'm not feeling well enough to shout at you in a fascist fashion about how you're wrong, so shake hands and walk away?
LOL, I think you and I mostly agree. But whatever, internet hand shake it is. I'm not phased by the argument anyway- my best friend is studying law, and that swotty girl almost always outflanks me in arguments, even when I'm sodding right. I won last time, but only because she said something so stupid she couldn't really defend it, even with her nefarious grasp of the English language. I felt suitably smug about the whole thing.
is someone going to post about the new spoilers? They're super interesting
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And dude, it's fine, I get what you mean now and I in no way aimed to state that Naomi is 100% straight because duh, that's as impossible to get from the text as 100% gay is. I don't understand people who have such difficulties with just accepting that she's somewhere on the fence that they feel the need to reinterpret the canon to make her one or the other, because she can so easily be both or neither!
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Yeah, nothing to do with the bisexual themed mensa meeting you guys had. But Laura knows Riese et all in real life? Because... had you presented me with that info this time 18 months ago I would have, idk, licked Laura's face and asked her to pass my sentiments on to Riese. Luckily, my internet crush has abated somewhat, and I now realise that would be a touch odd.
*remains classy*
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(why am I talking about this? Shield your eyes, Holey!)
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(glad to hear you're feeling better, meerkat.)
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