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[highlydubious]

Too bad that all the people who really know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs and cutting hair.
- George Burns

כל פעם. כל פעם אני מבטיח לעצמי שאני לא אתרגז כשאני אראה יהירות מרימה את ראשה. כל פעם אני נכשל

Comments

[nightface]

Wow. I made the mistake of reading the thread on both Ort and the Icon forum.
Icon space is valuable and costs money. I know because I pay for space for books, more and more every year. From the Con's point of view, they could sell that space for hmmm about 3200 NIS (at 400 NIS per day per 2x1 booth) maybe more. One shekel an item won't cover that and even 10% will have some trouble.

I suppose we could do away with these complaints be charging a fee at the door, but that wouldn't make anyone happier.

Sorry, I know you didn't need this response but I felt like writing it somewhere and this seemed like a decent place.

And yes, you should go back and run an Icon sometime. The downside would be seeing you go back to not smiling at cons like you used to, instead of enjoying yourself like last year.

[highlydubious]

I have a little trouble with your math. I'm not familiar with the prices of Icon's stands this year. Let's say it's 400 nis for a standard 2x1 table. That's 1,000 nis for 2 and a half days or 1,200 for all three days, not 3200.

We can't charge a fee at the entrance because we don't do all the activities in the same place AND the cinemateque has other visitors in it.

A daily pass is an option that was discussed, but is problematic.

now - the 2nd hand stand not only takes the space of 4 or 5 stands, it is also responsible for a major part of the volunteers. It is a service that costs icon a lot and lots of money in rentals and tickets. covering even part of it is a positive thing.

[nightface]

I think I was unclear. I meant that the 2nd-hand stand costs the con at least 3200 NIS, not that mine costs that much.

The fee at entrance was a failed attempt at sarcasm.

Basically, I was agreeing with you and was just too tired to be clear about it.

I would still like the daily pass, but having discussed it with many people over the years, am aware of the complcations.

[avgboojie]

Like I said in the forum, which you possibly seemed to have missed: Putting a price tag on EVERYTHING given to fans is exactly the right way to make sure that every year there will be less and less people eager to volunteer for the fan spirit of the con

[highlydubious]

GIVE ME A BREAK! this is just cheap, cheap rhetoric.
how many people actually volunteer and how many come for the free tickets?

Putting a price tag is necessary. Cashing it is a different story. If, just for the sake of arguement, the 2nd hand stand costs the festival (in cash money, not made up incomes) around (just throwing a ballpark number) 8,000 NIS - it's important to know it. Later you can make a decision whether to invest this money or not.

Icon invests TONS of money in the "community" activities - the arena, the decore, local productions and many more. It is a MAJOR part of the budget. What the hell are you talking about?

[avgboojie]

GIVE ME A BREAK! this is just cheap, cheap rhetoric.

Ooooo-kay. There's not really much I can say to answer that, now, can I?

[highlydubious]

Sentences like "fans wanting to give tons of hours for no compensation or hardly any compensation because of the fan spirit" or "it's been a growing problem finding volunteers who want to volunteer for the sake of it and not for the tickets they get" are not connected to what's going on nowadays. Most of those who volunteer during Icon do it for the tickets, and a lot of "staff" members' first worries is "what about my tickets?"

and "Volunteering for a commercial, pay-for-anything-you-get, fans-are-a-liability-not-an-asset con just doesn't have the same heart-warming feeling" is demagoguery, because Icon is not like that, and you know it.

[avgboojie]

I don't know it, or I wouldn't have said it. I have heard growing complaints, from many directions, about the commercialization of ICon and how the community/fan spirit is gradually being eroded. Fan/community-oriented events are more and more being tested according to the hard criterion of "are they worth the money?" or even "do they bring in money?"
You have mentioned, for instance, the colosseum - how long would the colosseum remain if it didn't supply great PR opportunities? Will the local productions still be kept if they don't bring money?
ICon bringing money is GOOD. But how long can you keep people volunteering in what is virtually a commercial enterprise?
I've belonged (like so many others) to the old generation of volunteers. I'd do it whether I'd get tickets or not, and virtually in every con I found myself buying at least part of the tickets. And I've always tried to do anything within my - limited, I must admit - capability to help the con.
How many such people will we have in the future?

[highlydubious]

Choose the people you hear these things from. This is a topic for hours of discussion. Since I have no role in Icon, I'd be happy to go over them with you.

Everything should answer the question "does it worth the money". everything. The fact that something costs money does not mean it doesn't worth it.

If local productions will bring, in income 100 shekels (example, of course) - it would be illogical and plain wrong to spend 1000 shekels on it. You aim for what pleases the crowd. what's the point in lectures with only 2 occupants?

In the 5 or 6 years I've been doing conventions I never went to a single lecture and think I stayed in no more than 2 movies. and it was fine fine fine. I don't expect everybody to act the same (even though it can be nice).

Icon, in its contents, especially this year, invested tremendously in the fans. Personally I think we should invest more on those who come in order to volunteer and less on those who come for the tickets, but that's another matter.

2 things

[adi_yogev]

1) There are always people like that - all the work, no reward and do it just for the sake of whateveer. And I believe NOW there are MORE then before 6-7 years. Why don't you see it? because now there are LOT more other people so these people, even if their (our) numbers are doubled from "your time" are still relatively less then before. The good news are that in order to arrange an Con. you don't need precetages, you need people.

2) "Will local production still be kept if they don't bring in money?"
Yes. and also if they lose money - which is what is happening with the Mahazemer from Haifa. I don't agree with what Icon is doing regarding this, but if that was your question - that this is the answer - Yes.