Whitewashing Non-white Countries

[ohmypizza]

I hope that this doesn't only bother me.  I'm not talking about Studio Deen whitewashing Seychelles, Egypt and Turkey, since someone already covered that.  I'm talking about the fans not doing their research and rendering a lot of non-white countries lily white.  I've seen too many examples of this.  People who make Greenland OCs tend to especially

Comments

[mizu_takishima]

Okay, this is going to sound extremely ignorant of me, (not to mention somewhat off-topic) so I apologize a million times over for this in advanced, but...

...what's the deal with Japan and race?

I mean- I know for them that the standard of beauty is "the lighter-skinned, the better", (kinda like how having bigger eyes is more beautiful to them too- not saying all Japanese people feel this way, just talking about the idealistic standards of beauty, or whatever you wanna call it) but just because they like lighter skin tones doesn't mean that they think non-white skin or other races in general are unattractive, right?

I mean, when a guy thinks that chicks with dark tans are sexy, that's not exactly a race thing is it? Just more of a tanning-booth thing...I think.

But with all of this "dark skin isn't kawaii enough" being said, it's almost like saying "every Japanese person is racist", even though it probably wasn't meant to sound that way at all. It just makes me confused and makes me wonder wtf is going on in Japan right now.

Again I'm just extremely uneducated. I have a high school diploma from a small rural area and internet research can only get me so far because I've been a moron since childhood. It doesn't help that I was dropped on my head as an infant either. (I wish I were making that up) I JUST WANT TO LEARN BUT I DON'T WANT TO OFFEND EITHER...

Maybe someone who's been to Japan, or reads about these kinds of issues that take place in Japan could explain it to me? Please...?

Again, sorry if this whole thing was badly worded and extremely racist-sounding all across the board OTL

[angstlich]

Oh, you are spot on, actually. The Japanese do not have the same negative history with other minorities like the western world has had. They had no years of African enslavement, they didn't pull a Romania and keep the Roma and Sinti Gypsies as slaves for nearly 600 years, and they did not commit genocides on the horrific scale that Germany and Russia did.

And, because of this, things that would seem offensive to a westerner do not even occur to the Japanese. You know the whole Jinx thing with Pokemon? How Americans complained that it looked like it was in black-face? Since they did not have years of racism in that way, they would not have even thought of how offensive it would seem to Americans. A lot of the things they do that seem offensive probably mean no harm.

But that does not excuse western fans for doing the same thing. They know what kind of connotations these things bring and they need to avoid it. Whitewashing Seychelles? It is just part of the Japanese aesthetic. Offensive, yes. Intentionally so? Probably not. So, even though I'm possibly the quintessential example of a minority, I don't get terribly offended by what the Japanese do. I do get offended when the western fans act like idiots.

So, yeah. You're not wrong. Hardly every Japanese person is 'racist,' as some people would put it. I would say that they are more ignorant of how offensive what they do can come off as. I think this wank is mostly about western fans wanting to ignore the ethnic groups of certain nations when making them OCs. That is very offensive.

[whittertwitter]

The Japanese do not have the same negative history with other minorities like the western world has had. They had no years of African enslavement, they didn't pull a Romania and keep the Roma and Sinti Gypsies as slaves for nearly 600 years, and they did not commit genocides on the horrific scale that Germany and Russia did.
They may not have negative history with the same minorities the West has, but they have had plenty of negative history with the Ainu, the Koreans, the Chinese, etc. And it might not have been the same in terms of scale, but what Unit 731 did was just as horrifying as the Nazi death camps and the gulags.

Since they did not have years of racism in that way, they would not have even thought of how offensive it would seem to Americans. A lot of the things they do that seem offensive probably mean no harm.
They didn't have the history, and they probably didn't have anyone who would object to it. I think about 99% of Japan's population is ethnic Japanese, and there are very few blacks among the other 1%, so there probably wouldn't be anyone who would find it offensive until it was brought to other countries for dubbing.

[mizu_takishima]

My palm just met my face.

I'm so sorry, I don't know as much about Japanese history as I do about European history. I know they've done some very sketchy things, but I meant that in the context of offending westerners.

I do know about the Ainu and kind-of-sort-of taking their land away a la the Native Americans, but I didn't think it was terribly relevant to the wank, so I didn't mention it. I know the Japanese were/are hardly saints, what with raping and murdering so many Chinese women and other atrocities, but I was just trying to stay relevant T_T Sorry if I came off as an ignorant lout.

[angstlich]

Oops, that wasn't supposed to be anonymous. Forgot to log in, like a derp. Sorry about that.

[whittertwitter]

It's alright!

I'm sorry I made you feel that way; I didn't mean to! I figured you already knew about that; I was just trying to clarify for anyone reading the comments.

Sorry, again. I'm notoriously bad about missing the point.

[mizu_takishima]

Ah okay! I figured that was the case, (also knew the stuff Whittertwitter said) but I wasn't sure |D;;;

For all I knew there was some kind of underlying issue, but I'm glad I'm knowledgable at least when it comes to everything you guys have said so far :'D (I'm also super glad nobody got offended by my questions either)

Thanks again!

[mizu_takishima]

you are extremely ignorant, Japanese war crimes in China rival those of Germany and Russia and possibly surpass them. And what does that have to do with race? Russians for instance did not go after a specific race, they mostly killed their own people who disagreed with the regime. And while Germany did persecute the Jews, the biggest loss of lives at the hands of the Nazis still happened in Eastern Europe, which is mostly blond and blue-eyed.

[pantsu]

Well Japan is relatively isolated and they've never had a reason to promote racial equality because there are few non-Japanese living there. For instance, black people are almost always sources of humour for things like game shows there.

But regarding their aesthetic for pale skin, that alone isn't racist at all. Like you said, having a preference in skin tone isn't always racist (ie. someone liking tans). The same goes with liking pale skin. It only becomes racist if you apply it to every race, including those that don't have "pale" tones.

[mizu_takishima]

Ohhh okay- yeah I figured that was the case :'D

Though what was the deal with J-fans drawing some black characters grunting or something like that? Probably because they don't realize it's offensive, but they're drawing a human being acting like...so it's like...Idon'tevenknowwhat'sgoingonanymore;;;;

[nodokaotonashi]

Basically, everyone made that point on Japan and black people. No need to expand further.

I wanted to add that even if they care little for races in the world, they don't do the same thing for nationalities surronding them. In example with Korea. Try to find any manga that is actually mentionning Koreans. Except one or two series and mangaka of Korean origin, you won't find a lot.

So we can't count on the masses of our two fandoms concerning the tanned/black OCs. Only on the ones who did the research properly, whether they came form J-fen or W-fen.

Besides, I really need to check Cameroon's tag on Pixiv.

[mizu_takishima]

Ah okay- yeah, it's kinda sad but I think that most of Asia's relationships with each other aren't exactly the best right now, especially Japan & Korea..

[zetsu1]

oh i didn't mean to make it sound like "all japanese people are racist"

><' im just saying that the japanese and a lot of others have been subconsciously taught that having darker skin is ugly. This even effects darker skinned people as well. I had a aunt that actually put this ointment on her skin that made her look lighter because she was also effected by "the white standard of beauty syndrome". Now, this doesn't /necessarily/ mean that all people are racist. People in japan have just been taught these negative stereotypes about darker skinned people through things like the oh-so politically correct characters in anime and manga. Because there are little to no other foreigners in japan, they have no choice but to believe these stereotypes. This doesn't make them racist, it just makes them naive. so I meant to say that the japanese are naive, not racist.

[mizu_takishima]

Ah okay ; w ;

Yeah, after reading everyone else's comments it pretty much confirmed what I knw, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't somehow in the dark about the whole issue. There could have been something factual that I completely missed x__x;;

As for characters in anime/manga, that's a whole different thing all together. like one of the teachers on Soul Eater was black, and I don't think he was drawn in an offensive way...but then he gets turned into a zombie @_@ But then there was that black student who shows up later and he didn't seem like an offensive stereotype to me either. (I'm sorry I can't remember the kid's name, I have trouble remembering the names of most of the cast OTL)

Then there's the characters on Basquash, which don't look like offensive stereotypes to me either, but...when you think about the premise of the show, I guess it would be a LITTLE offensive xD;;; (But that show has a French Guy's name on it, so some people aren't even sure if it counts as anime)

Then there's the fact that most anime/manga don't give ANY of their characters a trace of ethnicity, (like the Caucasian people will look like the Japanese people, and anyone that's non-white will just have a darker skin tone) so everyone has the whole generic cuteness thing going on, but people get offended because they don't exactly look "black", just, as I heard once before, "white people dipped in chocolate" |D;;; (not sure if that makes any sense OTL)

Anyway sorry for the rambling @_@ Some of the other comments mentioned something about black characters grunting in fan art? wtf I don't even see that happen in ACTUAL anime/manga, so why are J-fans even... ; _ ;