braindump
I should be studying, but I am taking a break to talk about recently consumed TV. Fancy that, I actually watch something other than FNL! Beware of spoilers for the shows generally.
( Supernatural )
( Supernatural )
Personally, Wesley's transformation into being a leader is one of the most fascinating things for me about the second and third seasons. In "This old Gang" for instance -- I think he probably is too hard on Gunn, but I'd also say that being in a position of leadership with your friends, and knowing exactly the right tone to take, is hard; in that sense, his relationship to Gunn is paralleling Gunn's relationship to his friends and former friends in that episode. And yes, it's bloody ironic that he's chewing out Gunn for not sharing information, considering what's going to happen shortly down the road, with the prophecies. Personally, I blame the Watcher training for convincing him that he really did know better than the rest of them.
And I understand what you're saying about apologies and the "sympathy bank" -- it's not a totally rational reaction on my part, but it's just the phrasing of what Angel says that kind of appalls me. I don't remember the exact words but it's something in the vein of "You never apologized for anything ever" -- it's Angel who's bringing up their past relationship and distorting it, not Wesley. If he'd just said "You never apologized for what you did to Connor" (although again, would a verbal apology be more important than rescuing him in 'Deep Down'?)
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First wrong done: Wesley taking Connor
Second wrong done: Angel attacking Wesley
First reparation: Wesley rescuing Angel
Second reparation: ?? <--- this is where the apology or something should have come in, as opposed to Wesley's resentment about being rejected
Does that make sense? Of course, it makes for better television and storytelling to NOT have that all neatly balanced out and redeemed, and I do think that at the end of the day Wesley is still one of the most fascinating and fascinatingly flawed characters in the whole Jossverse. And I agree, his transition into a leader and then an outcast (well, he was an outcast before, but became one in a different way) was really gripping, but this time around, I dunno, I just lost the love.
What I wish we could have seen was more of Wesley's reaction to learning the truth post-"Origin." Also, I don't think anyone else ever found out, did they? Not Gunn or Lorne, certainly.
Hmm, I need an Angel icon....
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I think it's so cool we're talking about this again, particularly with us both having chances to revisit stories we've written.
Re: Angel and Wesley and making up -- I think that Angel is ready to let bygones be bygones, after "deep down." He comes to Wesley for help in -- can't remember the episode? -- but I think he's anticipating thanking Wes and getting an apology. But Wes isn't having any of it. It makes me kind of want to smash them both together and make them be friends again (pretty much all their scenes in season 4 are like that) -- but it also makes psychological sense that Wesley reacts the way he does, controlling for the fact that Wesley's psychology is pretty damn fucked-up. (Why oh why do I love characters who react to things in idiotic ways -- glances at Kara Thrace and Scott Summers and Tony Stark. . .)
My personal overarching theory on Wesley is that his whole life is basically an extended failed-rescue-fantasy. Over and over he tries to be the guy to save the day, and over and over it never quite works (the possible exception being Pylea -- things can apparently work out for Wes in alternate dimensions). Anyway, the one and only time in canon that Wesley's rescue fantasy pretty much comes true by the numbers is saving Angel in "Deep Down." Angel comes to him ready to make amends and it SHOULD be everything he ever wanted, but he refuses to accept his success. I can't decide whether (1) he just doesn't know how to deal with winning -- because he knows deep down he doesn't deserve it -- or (2) he figures he should quit while he's ahead.
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I think it's so cool we're talking about this again, particularly with us both having chances to revisit stories we've written.
Me, too! Especially since, obviously, I've had this change in how I view the characters. And I really needed to talk to somebody about Wesley, so I'm glad you've got this viewpoint on him which is balancing me out again.
I think you're talking about "Ground State," right after "Deep Down." And so, yeah, Angel essentially forgives him, says that as far as he's concerned they're all right. For a vampire he's got a bigger heart than me. ;-) Certainly after that one moment in "Awakening," after he came back to himself after Angelus, Angel did seem to have accepted Wesley as fully one of the group again -- or at least, I can't remember him exhibiting any lingering resentment -- and even sympathized with him about Lilah. And I think that as late as "Origin," when Angel's urging Wesley not to break the memory thing, there seems to be some underlying concern for Wesley's own well-being if he remembered all that had happened, as much as for Connor's.
I think you totally hit it on the head with your theory. And man, that was what made Wes/Faith appeal to me so much back in the day (that was going to be the next thing I wrote after "Theodicy" -- something with that version of Wesley and the Faith I'd written in my other stories). He completely fucked it all up with her, and then Connor was his other big fuckup. And the latter is especially horrible, because he'd temporarily had a sense of success and belonging and feeling appreciated by people, and by his own actions he brought it all crashing down.
So I think I agree with your (1) conclusion -- given his own sense of self-loathing, ingrained in him by his father and then reinforced by those two huge failures, I can see him just not knowing how to deal when he had Angel telling him he'd finally gotten something right.
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but off the top of my head, I know stoney321 and callmesandy have written some terrific Connor stories.
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Wes/Faith is my Buffyverse OTP (I mean, I like a lot of pairings, but it's almost the only one I can actually project into a long-term future. . .though I have to have Wesley leave after season 4 instead of going to W&H
And I'm always ready to talk Wesley!
Re: the after-exams thing . . .you're graduating and taking the bar this summer, right? I remember my bar bri summer WELL. It's when I became a media geek -- had my first Xmen experience and read the first four Harry Potter books in the week after the exam.
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you're graduating and taking the bar this summer, right
Indeed I am. Right now I'm looking forward to the time between my last final and the first BarBri class day, because I am going to be consuming SO MUCH fandom....
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That's the spirit! And the book comes out two days BEFORE your exam, right?
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