Perhaps of interest to some readers?
I didn't edit this or even give the most trifling nod to grammar or structure as it would be wasted on the target audience. I am sure you will forgive me.
Some jackal on a forum said: "I happen to be far from racists. I know,like and on a steady basis have various forms of relations with people of various colors,nationalities,religions and any other form of cultural diversions you can think of including Brazilians. But in my opinion if they are illegal I think they should pay the price for breaking federal law. Just the same as I believe any american citizen should pay the price of their crimes."
Race is the crux of the matter in the vast majority of cases once you've eliminated all of the other reasons. Let me show you why I think that.
The issues that I can think of with illegal immigrants are as follows:
1. We are a country of laws.
No we aren't. We're a country of principles and ideals. We have a long history of ignoring bad laws --and our immigration laws are definitely bad. I don't think you'll find anybody who thinks the laws are fine as written. There are plenty of things that are illegal that we all wink and ignore, like speeding, tariffs on goods we sneak in our suitcases, taxes, etc.. Illegal immigration is definitely in that category, even if some people would prefer it were not for other reasons. Claiming that illegal immigrants should be deported because they broke one of our more poorly conceived laws is specious. People saying this are almost always opposed to immigration in general, because they oppose changing the laws to make it so immigrating to this country is easier or more manageable.
2. They are stealing our jobs.
Some jobs, like picking strawberries, aren't worth paying minimum wage. If we abolished minimum wage, Americans could compete for those jobs if they really wanted to. On MV, there is a shortage of labor for things like painting houses and working in kitchens; the brazilian community fills these gaps and I'm sure they largely make about the same wages as we do. If our Americans really wanted those jobs, I'm sure we could have them. And it isn't as though you are owed a job by anybody, or that you can own jobs; ergo, no theft.
3. They are a security threat.
It is abundantly obvious that getting into this country through Mexico is easy. The reason we haven't seen Qaeda or some such group get in is either that nobody with the money available wants to, or that the Mexican criminals are conscious that a terrorist entering that way could spell the end of their porous borders --in any case, we can all agree this isn't a problem on MV.
4. They are criminals.
Locally, they are by and large only excessively criminals because we forbid them from getting driver. We all need cars in order to have jobs and need normal lives, but illegal immigrants (and some legal immigrants) cannot obtain licenses, so of course they get arrested for this. Some people say they traffic in drugs, but that is more a function of the coyotes that run them across the border, and sometimes force their passengers to basically enter into indentured servitude, or a function of the poverty some areas have (not MV though, it's the white people that bring drugs here).
5.They are destroying our culture.
If you can show me what American culture is and how they are destroying it, we can talk about this. This comment especially, is usually thinly veiled racism or xenophobia. I would lump "they will outnumber us in X years" in with this category --I don't care, and if I did I wouldn't worry because they will basically be culturally identical to us by whatever nebulous year is quoted.
6. They don't speak our language.
They will, or at least their kids will. And if our tax dollars somehow help them do it, it's just that much sooner that we won't have to put up bilingual signs. Bilingual signs make everyone safer and really can't be that expensive --the reason most people dislike them is because they remind them of the (somehow) offensive immigrant population. Our irish and italian ancestors didn't speak english or even know how to read their own languages, so I don't see why these new immigrants should. I don't think it's an unfair requirement for citizenship, but only because English is so ubiquitous internationally.
7. They don't pay taxes.
If an illegal wants most any job, he or she needs to give a social security number. Even if the number is fictitious, taxes will be taken out of their check. They won't get refunds or social security from that money, and it enriches our economy at their expense. Even if they are paid entirely under the table, they still pay property and sales taxes like everybody else, and considering their income bracket is so low I don't think their dodging income taxes is really that big a deal anyway --certainly not on the local level, because those income dollars mostly go to our bloated federal budget.
8. They use our services.
I don't think charity missions really care about the citizenship of whomever they are helping. I know illegal immigrants don't get welfare. And as far as I know, illegal immigrants are not permitted to attend public school for free outside of the state of California. Those brazilians at the elementary school are, like it or not, American citizens or legal guests.
8. They all live in the same house and drive down property values.
Do you really care? I think citizens should be able to squish into one house and bring down property values, too. It's their property, not yours. I could paint my house bright pink to drive down property values, and it would make me a wretched neighbor, not a criminal in need of deportation. Using this as an excuse to not allow these people to live in our country is absurd, especially since this is a function of their poverty-inspired frugality rather than their nation of origin.
9. They're brown people.
This is why many people --not you, wtdiver, but definitely some of the other people on this forum-- dislike immigrants in general, and use the illegality of some immigrants as an excuse to tarbrush the entire immigrant community.
Some jackal on a forum said: "I happen to be far from racists. I know,like and on a steady basis have various forms of relations with people of various colors,nationalities,religions and any other form of cultural diversions you can think of including Brazilians. But in my opinion if they are illegal I think they should pay the price for breaking federal law. Just the same as I believe any american citizen should pay the price of their crimes."
Race is the crux of the matter in the vast majority of cases once you've eliminated all of the other reasons. Let me show you why I think that.
The issues that I can think of with illegal immigrants are as follows:
1. We are a country of laws.
No we aren't. We're a country of principles and ideals. We have a long history of ignoring bad laws --and our immigration laws are definitely bad. I don't think you'll find anybody who thinks the laws are fine as written. There are plenty of things that are illegal that we all wink and ignore, like speeding, tariffs on goods we sneak in our suitcases, taxes, etc.. Illegal immigration is definitely in that category, even if some people would prefer it were not for other reasons. Claiming that illegal immigrants should be deported because they broke one of our more poorly conceived laws is specious. People saying this are almost always opposed to immigration in general, because they oppose changing the laws to make it so immigrating to this country is easier or more manageable.
2. They are stealing our jobs.
Some jobs, like picking strawberries, aren't worth paying minimum wage. If we abolished minimum wage, Americans could compete for those jobs if they really wanted to. On MV, there is a shortage of labor for things like painting houses and working in kitchens; the brazilian community fills these gaps and I'm sure they largely make about the same wages as we do. If our Americans really wanted those jobs, I'm sure we could have them. And it isn't as though you are owed a job by anybody, or that you can own jobs; ergo, no theft.
3. They are a security threat.
It is abundantly obvious that getting into this country through Mexico is easy. The reason we haven't seen Qaeda or some such group get in is either that nobody with the money available wants to, or that the Mexican criminals are conscious that a terrorist entering that way could spell the end of their porous borders --in any case, we can all agree this isn't a problem on MV.
4. They are criminals.
Locally, they are by and large only excessively criminals because we forbid them from getting driver. We all need cars in order to have jobs and need normal lives, but illegal immigrants (and some legal immigrants) cannot obtain licenses, so of course they get arrested for this. Some people say they traffic in drugs, but that is more a function of the coyotes that run them across the border, and sometimes force their passengers to basically enter into indentured servitude, or a function of the poverty some areas have (not MV though, it's the white people that bring drugs here).
5.They are destroying our culture.
If you can show me what American culture is and how they are destroying it, we can talk about this. This comment especially, is usually thinly veiled racism or xenophobia. I would lump "they will outnumber us in X years" in with this category --I don't care, and if I did I wouldn't worry because they will basically be culturally identical to us by whatever nebulous year is quoted.
6. They don't speak our language.
They will, or at least their kids will. And if our tax dollars somehow help them do it, it's just that much sooner that we won't have to put up bilingual signs. Bilingual signs make everyone safer and really can't be that expensive --the reason most people dislike them is because they remind them of the (somehow) offensive immigrant population. Our irish and italian ancestors didn't speak english or even know how to read their own languages, so I don't see why these new immigrants should. I don't think it's an unfair requirement for citizenship, but only because English is so ubiquitous internationally.
7. They don't pay taxes.
If an illegal wants most any job, he or she needs to give a social security number. Even if the number is fictitious, taxes will be taken out of their check. They won't get refunds or social security from that money, and it enriches our economy at their expense. Even if they are paid entirely under the table, they still pay property and sales taxes like everybody else, and considering their income bracket is so low I don't think their dodging income taxes is really that big a deal anyway --certainly not on the local level, because those income dollars mostly go to our bloated federal budget.
8. They use our services.
I don't think charity missions really care about the citizenship of whomever they are helping. I know illegal immigrants don't get welfare. And as far as I know, illegal immigrants are not permitted to attend public school for free outside of the state of California. Those brazilians at the elementary school are, like it or not, American citizens or legal guests.
8. They all live in the same house and drive down property values.
Do you really care? I think citizens should be able to squish into one house and bring down property values, too. It's their property, not yours. I could paint my house bright pink to drive down property values, and it would make me a wretched neighbor, not a criminal in need of deportation. Using this as an excuse to not allow these people to live in our country is absurd, especially since this is a function of their poverty-inspired frugality rather than their nation of origin.
9. They're brown people.
This is why many people --not you, wtdiver, but definitely some of the other people on this forum-- dislike immigrants in general, and use the illegality of some immigrants as an excuse to tarbrush the entire immigrant community.