go back to your holehebrewhammer777August 18 2006, 04:12:43 UTC
Orwell may have been a socialist but he was anti-communist and anti-statist. And if you think that the terrorists are just a fabrication, you're even more nuts than I thought.
If that picture didn't do it for you, how about these?
Yeah, those are a *little* different than Israeli kids with flags, don't you think? There's plenty more too. I especially love the one with the little girl holding her hands up with fake blood on it, reenacting the time that a bloodthirsty mob literally ripped apart two Israeli soldiers with their bare hands, then showed the bloody hands to the cameras. How can you compare this to *anything* Israel has ever done or anything Israelis teach their children?
Now to address your claim that the Arabs somehow have a "better claim to the land occupied by Israel than the Israelis do." What?!? Are you out of your mind? Jews were living there for over a thousand years before Muhammed and Jews have been living there continuously throughout history. The land which comprised Israel when it declared independence in 1948 had a majority of Jewish civilians. Sure, Arabs have also lived there for a long time, but there has never been an independent Palestinian state on that land. Moreover, Britain promised both the Jews and the Arabs states in the British colony of Palestine: the Arabs received Jordan and the Jews received three small strips of land. Not content, the Arabs attacked Israel and lost some land in the process. Either way, the Israelis have every right to that land and the Palestinians have none. I don't know where you get these crazy ideas, but I'd like to see you back up that statement.
Re: go back to your holecapt_oblivionAugust 18 2006, 23:35:58 UTC
Of the pics that you posted, most of those kids are holding toy guns. Like I mentioned before with the picture of the young women with guns you posted. The Israelis indoctrinate their youth through things like religion and compulsory military service. This is essentially the same thing that you see going on here.
It's Arab land, just like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt. The fact that there was an Israelite state there thousands of years ago does not legitimize the European Jewish presence there now. Why not put a Christian state there? There are Christians living there, and there is precedent for Jerusalem being controlled by Christians. Although this idea is silly and absurd, it is no more absurd than reestablishing a Jewish State there. All it needs is a dedicated group of Christians willing to pursue it.
I keep hearing you repeat that there has never been a independent Palestinian state there as if it matters. That has absolutely no relevance to the issue at all. In 1948 it was a matter of whether the people of the region were able to govern and administer the land which they had occupied and administered for generations. They could've set up a secular state, but no they had to create a Jewish State by the means of diplomatic trickery.
Re: go back to your holehebrewhammer777August 21 2006, 01:28:12 UTC
So just because some are holding toy guns and some are holding real guns, that's okay? What about the girl w/ her hands covered in fake blood? To compare this violent indoctrination with Israeli education is utter foolishness. The pictures I posted were of *actual* soldiers, not little children. The compulsory military service is a matter of national survival, not for indoctrination.
It's Arab land, just like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt
Says who? There was a majority Jewish population, but somehow the Arabs own it? That's just silly.
The fact that there was an Israelite state there thousands of years ago does not legitimize the European Jewish presence there now
No, but the fact that there was a *continuous* Jewish presence and a Jewish *majority* does legitimize Israel's existence. Not all of them were European immigrants, not that it matters anyway since those immigrants moved their legally and purchased land.
In 1948 it was a matter of whether the people of the region were able to govern and administer the land which they had occupied and administered for generations
But Arabs hadn't administered that land for generations -- the British controlled it and the Turks (who also aren't Arab, for the record) controlled it before them. At the time of their declaration of independence from Britain, the majority of the population was Jewish, therefore you're right, only insofar as it *was* a matter of whether the people of the region (the Jews) were able to govern the land. The Arabs were given their own state side-by-side with the Jews: Transjordan.
They could've set up a secular state, but no they had to create a Jewish State by the means of diplomatic trickery.
It is a secular state -- "Jewish" is ethnic as well as religious. All religions are allowed and accepted, unlike when Jordanian Arabs controlled Jerusalem and Jews weren't even allowed in their own holy sites. As for "diplomatic trickery" I have no idea what you're talking about.
Re: go back to your holehebrewhammer777August 23 2006, 15:10:33 UTC
Just to demonstrate further how ignorant you are (not that I have to, you're doing a fine job of it yourself), you called Israel a "Jewish state" as opposed to a "secular state" implying that it is theocracy. Israeli citizens are not punished for driving on the Sabbath, eating unkosher food, having sex outside of marriage or with members of the same sex, not wearing yarmulkes
If that picture didn't do it for you, how about these?
Yeah, those are a *little* different than Israeli kids with flags, don't you think? There's plenty more too. I especially love the one with the little girl holding her hands up with fake blood on it, reenacting the time that a bloodthirsty mob literally ripped apart two Israeli soldiers with their bare hands, then showed the bloody hands to the cameras. How can you compare this to *anything* Israel has ever done or anything Israelis teach their children?
Now to address your claim that the Arabs somehow have a "better claim to the land occupied by Israel than the Israelis do." What?!? Are you out of your mind? Jews were living there for over a thousand years before Muhammed and Jews have been living there continuously throughout history. The land which comprised Israel when it declared independence in 1948 had a majority of Jewish civilians. Sure, Arabs have also lived there for a long time, but there has never been an independent Palestinian state on that land. Moreover, Britain promised both the Jews and the Arabs states in the British colony of Palestine: the Arabs received Jordan and the Jews received three small strips of land. Not content, the Arabs attacked Israel and lost some land in the process. Either way, the Israelis have every right to that land and the Palestinians have none. I don't know where you get these crazy ideas, but I'd like to see you back up that statement.
Reply
It's Arab land, just like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt. The fact that there was an Israelite state there thousands of years ago does not legitimize the European Jewish presence there now. Why not put a Christian state there? There are Christians living there, and there is precedent for Jerusalem being controlled by Christians. Although this idea is silly and absurd, it is no more absurd than reestablishing a Jewish State there. All it needs is a dedicated group of Christians willing to pursue it.
I keep hearing you repeat that there has never been a independent Palestinian state there as if it matters. That has absolutely no relevance to the issue at all. In 1948 it was a matter of whether the people of the region were able to govern and administer the land which they had occupied and administered for generations. They could've set up a secular state, but no they had to create a Jewish State by the means of diplomatic trickery.
Reply
It's Arab land, just like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt
Says who? There was a majority Jewish population, but somehow the Arabs own it? That's just silly.
The fact that there was an Israelite state there thousands of years ago does not legitimize the European Jewish presence there now
No, but the fact that there was a *continuous* Jewish presence and a Jewish *majority* does legitimize Israel's existence. Not all of them were European immigrants, not that it matters anyway since those immigrants moved their legally and purchased land.
In 1948 it was a matter of whether the people of the region were able to govern and administer the land which they had occupied and administered for generations
But Arabs hadn't administered that land for generations -- the British controlled it and the Turks (who also aren't Arab, for the record) controlled it before them. At the time of their declaration of independence from Britain, the majority of the population was Jewish, therefore you're right, only insofar as it *was* a matter of whether the people of the region (the Jews) were able to govern the land. The Arabs were given their own state side-by-side with the Jews: Transjordan.
They could've set up a secular state, but no they had to create a Jewish State by the means of diplomatic trickery.
It is a secular state -- "Jewish" is ethnic as well as religious. All religions are allowed and accepted, unlike when Jordanian Arabs controlled Jerusalem and Jews weren't even allowed in their own holy sites. As for "diplomatic trickery" I have no idea what you're talking about.
Reply
Meanwhile, Palestinian girls who bring dishonor to their families (which including *being raped*) are frequently then murdered by their own family. The official constitution of Saudi Arabia is the Koran and their textbooks teach that only Islam is true, Jews and Christians are enemies, and that the Day of Judgment will come only after killing the Jews. Women in Saudi Arabia who weren't dressed properly while escaping a fire were forced back into the burning building where they died. Adulterous women in Iran are stoned to death. But no, only Israel gets your condemnation and only Israel is called a theocracy. Idiot.
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