Contest of Losers

Jan 04, 2013 03:52

I'm just wondering if there is anyone out there who is a bigger loser than I am and can usurp my self-designated title of dishonor. Granted, it's not a contest anyone would want to win but out of everyone I know, I think I'm the biggest loser. And no, I don't mean losing great amounts of weight from exercising and dieting because that would be a ( Read more... )

Leave a comment

heavens_steed January 5 2013, 04:18:35 UTC
I propose to you that the reason you're calling yourself a loser, is because you're working from the axiom that normal people can, and should, be able to elevate themselves to success no matter where they start from.

Yes and I do believe that is true in places like the United States. It's less true than it use to be and continuing in that direction but this country still offers tremendous opportunity to people starting out from nothing more than nearly any other place on Earth.

Your poker analogy ignores this fact completely and the numerous cases of people moving up the ladder from the very bottom to a respectable high place. It's certainly true that people are dealt uneven hands in both circumstances and innate talent and that those who are blessed in one or the other or both have a clear advantage over those that are not. But normal people who work hard and persevere, usually advance to a higher point.

Even if we continue with your poker analogy and say that I was dealt a shitty hand, I could have handled my shitty hand far better than I have.

That being said, I would never be content with being normal. Only exceptional will do for me and an exceptional person will advance higher no matter what point they start from.

As I told corelog, I think adopting a victim mentality is illustrative of a loser mindset. So if I adopted your guys' notion that it's primarily circumstances that are to blame, that would further cement my own "losertude" in my view.

Reply

footpad January 11 2013, 21:03:37 UTC
Actually, I think your self-perception as a loser is probably mostly to do with depression, which does strange things to our heads, and makes us blame ourselves for a lot of things we shouldn't. Which kinda makes it hard to argue any of this stull logically, since either you or I may be "arguing" from our respective positions of irrational self-denigration. Oh well.

-

You're pleased to point out the numerous cases of people who've ascended through dedication and discipline. But don't forget those who've applied themselves, taken reasonable precautions, and still been crushed by the vicissitudes of fortune. It's a lot to do with fortitude and perseverance, but it's also a hell of a lot to do with plain blind luck, and it's self-defeating to blame yourself for bad luck.

I do agree that "the victim mentality" reinforces "the loser mentality". We can't just sit around crying, "it's all because society fucked me up, man." But it's still possible to be a blameless victim, because sometimes life just does shit upon us from a great height. When that happens, sure, we have to grit our teeth and get shovelling. But we don't automatically have to treat ourselves as though the shit came from within.

This is what people like avon_deer and I are trying to tell you. You can blame yourself for not shovelling hard enough, and that's fine, but you can't blame yourself for the shit.

(But of course shovelling also has its limits. To change the metaphor, "sink or swim" is true enough in its way, but if I were to drop you in the middle of the Atlantic, I hope you wouldn't blame yourself for drowning.)

Only exceptional will do for me ...

Exceptionalism, sir, is an attitude which will burn you sooner or later. There is no mileage or virtue in comparing your limits or achievements with others'. Any elation it brings you will be matched by the chagrin when you eventually, inevitably, find yourself outclassed. But then, I doubt this paragraph will be much use to you -- I suspect it's something one only learns the hard way, as I did.

Sigh. Where was I going with this, I wonder...

*earnuzzle*

Reply

corelog January 11 2013, 21:51:57 UTC
Exceptionalism, sir, is an attitude which will burn you sooner or later. There is no mileage or virtue in comparing your limits or achievements with others'. Any elation it brings you will be matched by the chagrin when you eventually, inevitably, find yourself outclassed.

How very true! I've lost count of the times I've been stung by this, as I was raised with an exceptionalistic view on life. My worth was largely dictated by what I could do that others couldn't--and when I had no more use to them, my friends would suddenly disappear. Alternately, if my liabilities of temperment and isolation outweighed my usefulness, the same would happen.

I still find myself falling into the trap of this viewpoint, on a regular basis. However, I'm learning to not lean on it quite so heavily. My value is not in what I do that others cannot--in being exceptional. My value lies in the uniqueness of my soul and my perception, not in how exceptional any of my attributes are.

Reply

heavens_steed January 12 2013, 00:18:11 UTC
Since you all seem so convinced that I've been the victim of the vicissitudes of fortune, perhaps you'd like to explain to me specifically why this is and provide evidence for that position. I just don't see that. At least 90 percent of my problems and undesirable aspects of my current life are the result of bad decisions I made. I might agree with you in that I was given a bad hand by being born as myself, with my inherently deficient personality and character, lack of competency and talent, sexual perversity, etc. Someone who just doesn't have much potential will never excel very far on their own, regardless of how much or how little they've been given.

Exceptionalism doesn't necessarily mean being literally number one above everyone else. Nor does it mean excelling in every possible category. What I mean by exceptional is being really good at something. Better than most people but not necessarily all. It means striving for excellence.

Are you actually telling me that I should strive for and desire mediocrity? The rule of thumb is that what you'll likely fall short of what you strive for. So if you strive for excellence, you'll probably at least reach "pretty good." If you strive for mediocrity, you'll only reach mediocrity or worse.

As for comparing oneself to others, you're completely correct. But I have no other means of assessing my value. The only other source of value would be inherent or intrinsic value which is grounded in God. But I don't have such value, so all I'm left with is subjective value determined by other people.

Reply

footpad January 12 2013, 09:31:58 UTC
Aha! Okay. I understand what you mean by the 'exceptional' now. We're just disagreeing over the semantics of a word. I took it to mean, "markedly better than anyone else". If you're using it to mean, "striving towards the best of one's abilities", then we have no great disagreement.

I hope that disposes of that disagreement. *wag*

As for assessing one's value by comparison with others: yes, it's a fundamental human instinct and we all do it. But, speaking with the benefit of a lot of hindsight: it doesn't actually do us much good. The results depend totally on where you set your sights. Compare yourself to the stars and you'll despair; compare yourself to skid row and you'll become happy with something worse than mediocrity. If you've got to compare yourself with someone, compare yourself with you a year ago.

As for your hindrances in life:

  • By your own account, you have a family who despise fundamental aspects of your nature (I think it fair to call it "your God-given nature").
  • You've come of age in a time when the economy sucks horrendously, placing huge obstacles before anyone who wants to support themselves without having the benefit of an established trade.
  • You have been slugged with a predisposition for depression (probably substantially genetic), and your society does not encourage treatment of the depressed.

For a start.

When I try to judge the effects of these things, I compare you and me. We're not so very different: highly verbally intelligent, socially perhaps less so, both depressive. And I think it's entirely plausible that, if I hadn't started out with an unconditionally supportive family, and the benefits of universal healthcare, I'd be in a position much like yours. Plus I'd be toothless.

On the other hand, if I'd made proper use of my advantages, by now I'd be a professor or an eminent journalist.

If you're a loser, than so am I.

Reply


Leave a comment

Up