My Response to Mr. Tickle:
Shawn, my response was too short. I hope you don't mind me posting it? Here it is:
Nothing will ever stop me from respecting you: nothing. You COULD be a Mormon (I say this because you said you could/would never ascribe to such belief)and I would still call you friend. You must know this. It is your character that has earned my repsect--it is your conduct as a husband and father and teacher that will forever make me defend you and your good name at all costs. I say this because the words I am about to say may very well offend you. Please understand that I do not mean to offend; in good concience, I say what I am about to say because I must, as you have. We can come to the table with dignity and grace, can't we? Here goes...
Basically, Shawn, you're a nice guy. Quite possibly, you are one of the nicest people I have ever known; your daughter, your wife, and your students all know this (I would be MUCH harder with deadlines of papers, for example--in fact, ruthless). It is this characterisitic, however, that, I believe, determines very much how you see God, and what you choose to and not to believe. While some of what you say is dogmatic, you leave room for...well, let's call it what it is: relativism. While you belive there is truth, you also believe that we cannot know God's truth? You say that you don't contradict yourself, yet you most certainly do: you want to be exclusive in what you believe, but you are not; you wish to distinguish yours from other beliefs, but you don't. In fact, you instead walk into the mixing pot, as it were, and are lost among the many others who choose to hold hands, sit in a circle, and smile so as to not "cast judgement" on anyone.
And it is here that you diappoint me.
Religion IS flawed; you are right. However, if God does exist, can we know Him at all? Religion is man's attempt to "get to God." It is a rigorously liturgical system, with hoops and red tape; we embrace it because it feels good to us: we believe we have done something to earn God's favor. We continue this cycle, for whatever reasons there are, because in doing so, in following a liturgy or ritual or system, we appease our concience (aren't we glad Martin Luther saw this flawed system for what it was?). However, the Bible never advocates such practices. Sure, there is the Old Testament (full of rituals and traditions), but in it's appropriate context--and you will agree it's always about the text?--these rituals are, as Paul tells us, a shoolmaster to teach us how far we fall of God's standard. How can we possibly measure up? If we read the Bible, the case can be made that we were never meant to measure up to any standard; how could God expect that of flawed man? We have one mediator; and He measures up to God's standard, but then again, He must, for He is God. Our religious practices are surely not the answer to a very spiritual problem. I agree with you, there. We can see flawed religion in many sects of Catholicism and Protestantism; it can be quite painful to look at. So, then, what is the answer? It can't be man's perscription; we must look elsewhere, for a Divine answer to "all our woe." Thankfully, there is one.
Now, as for Biblical interpretation, I must repsectfully, but adamantly, disagree with what you have said. Simply sated, I have no idea where or how or why the Bible is so hard to understand. If you ask me (and you have by posting your journal), it's pretty easy. If you can understand what I'm saying here, isn't there SOME conventionality to language? Here's my point: I will not tell anyone they are going to Hell; I will not tell anyone they are going to Heaven. It makes no differece what I--or anyone else--say/s. I have not set 'the rules of the game.' The Bible, however, is not ambiguous on who goes to Heaven or Hell; it is not grey in coloring sin; there is no room for disagreement, when we take the Bible for what it says and simply read it, as it relates to eternal life, etermal damnation, or our life here on this Earth. Do I condemn people to Hell? Never! The Bible, however, does. More than any other topic, Jesus talked about Hell. He warned, over and over again, the truth of eternal separation from God. The "Logos" had to: His sacrafice gave us Grace: God's unmerrited favor. Is it comfortable discussing Heaven or Hell or good or bad or wrong or right? No. But, thankfully, I don't convey my ideas when I do so; I didn't come up with the material.
It is dangerous to decide what is from God or not from God just because we don't like it; so what if someone agrees with us or not? Truth is not decided because there is a majority vote; it never has been. Truth is truth because it is, whether we like it or not. Jesus calimed to be truth, and the only way to Heaven. What do you--or I--do with that? We can dismiss it, if we like, but before we do, let's consider it. After all, if we want to, we can write our own Bible, and ascribe to it.
I would most certainly like to hear your response to all of this; and I'm disappointed you did not respond before. I am sure you realize this is not meant to be a fight? I care for you very much. But, as you have written your heart, so I must as well.
- El Ruiz
Nothing will ever stop me from respecting you: nothing. You COULD be a Mormon (I say this because you said you could/would never ascribe to such belief)and I would still call you friend. You must know this. It is your character that has earned my repsect--it is your conduct as a husband and father and teacher that will forever make me defend you and your good name at all costs. I say this because the words I am about to say may very well offend you. Please understand that I do not mean to offend; in good concience, I say what I am about to say because I must, as you have. We can come to the table with dignity and grace, can't we? Here goes...
Basically, Shawn, you're a nice guy. Quite possibly, you are one of the nicest people I have ever known; your daughter, your wife, and your students all know this (I would be MUCH harder with deadlines of papers, for example--in fact, ruthless). It is this characterisitic, however, that, I believe, determines very much how you see God, and what you choose to and not to believe. While some of what you say is dogmatic, you leave room for...well, let's call it what it is: relativism. While you belive there is truth, you also believe that we cannot know God's truth? You say that you don't contradict yourself, yet you most certainly do: you want to be exclusive in what you believe, but you are not; you wish to distinguish yours from other beliefs, but you don't. In fact, you instead walk into the mixing pot, as it were, and are lost among the many others who choose to hold hands, sit in a circle, and smile so as to not "cast judgement" on anyone.
And it is here that you diappoint me.
Religion IS flawed; you are right. However, if God does exist, can we know Him at all? Religion is man's attempt to "get to God." It is a rigorously liturgical system, with hoops and red tape; we embrace it because it feels good to us: we believe we have done something to earn God's favor. We continue this cycle, for whatever reasons there are, because in doing so, in following a liturgy or ritual or system, we appease our concience (aren't we glad Martin Luther saw this flawed system for what it was?). However, the Bible never advocates such practices. Sure, there is the Old Testament (full of rituals and traditions), but in it's appropriate context--and you will agree it's always about the text?--these rituals are, as Paul tells us, a shoolmaster to teach us how far we fall of God's standard. How can we possibly measure up? If we read the Bible, the case can be made that we were never meant to measure up to any standard; how could God expect that of flawed man? We have one mediator; and He measures up to God's standard, but then again, He must, for He is God. Our religious practices are surely not the answer to a very spiritual problem. I agree with you, there. We can see flawed religion in many sects of Catholicism and Protestantism; it can be quite painful to look at. So, then, what is the answer? It can't be man's perscription; we must look elsewhere, for a Divine answer to "all our woe." Thankfully, there is one.
Now, as for Biblical interpretation, I must repsectfully, but adamantly, disagree with what you have said. Simply sated, I have no idea where or how or why the Bible is so hard to understand. If you ask me (and you have by posting your journal), it's pretty easy. If you can understand what I'm saying here, isn't there SOME conventionality to language? Here's my point: I will not tell anyone they are going to Hell; I will not tell anyone they are going to Heaven. It makes no differece what I--or anyone else--say/s. I have not set 'the rules of the game.' The Bible, however, is not ambiguous on who goes to Heaven or Hell; it is not grey in coloring sin; there is no room for disagreement, when we take the Bible for what it says and simply read it, as it relates to eternal life, etermal damnation, or our life here on this Earth. Do I condemn people to Hell? Never! The Bible, however, does. More than any other topic, Jesus talked about Hell. He warned, over and over again, the truth of eternal separation from God. The "Logos" had to: His sacrafice gave us Grace: God's unmerrited favor. Is it comfortable discussing Heaven or Hell or good or bad or wrong or right? No. But, thankfully, I don't convey my ideas when I do so; I didn't come up with the material.
It is dangerous to decide what is from God or not from God just because we don't like it; so what if someone agrees with us or not? Truth is not decided because there is a majority vote; it never has been. Truth is truth because it is, whether we like it or not. Jesus calimed to be truth, and the only way to Heaven. What do you--or I--do with that? We can dismiss it, if we like, but before we do, let's consider it. After all, if we want to, we can write our own Bible, and ascribe to it.
I would most certainly like to hear your response to all of this; and I'm disappointed you did not respond before. I am sure you realize this is not meant to be a fight? I care for you very much. But, as you have written your heart, so I must as well.
- El Ruiz