Main Characters who are confident, capable, and female are all Mary Sues doncha know?
Over on Tumblr this kerfluffle went down, wherein someone calls Avatar Korra (among other leading ladies) a Mary Sue.
"Frankly, when you make a 1 dimensional female character who is the best at everything, pretty, and completely flat as a character, she will be labeled a Mary Sue.
From what I’ve seen of Korra, she’s pretty, brave, a bad ass martial artist, retardedly good at her trade (being the avatar and knowing 3 forms of bending by the time she is 5 rather than traveling the world and finding a master to teach her like EVERY avatar before her)
Who else does that sound like?
Merida, she’s pretty, brave, a bad ass martial artist, retardedly good at her trade (archery)
Katniss, she’s pretty, brave, a bad ass martial artist, retardedly good at her trade (archery and survival)
Lesbeth, she’s pretty, brave, a bad ass martial artist, retardedly good at her trade (hacking)"
The first thing y'all ought to know is that neither Korra's show The Legend of Korra nor Merida's movie Brave have even come out yet. So our dear fanperson is basing their judgement upon literally two to three minutes of material at best. Wow, apparently that's enough to determine that Korra will be one-dimensional and have no flaws and be a completely unrealisitc perfect character who can do no wrong!
Yeah right.
The bizarre Comparisons-Which-Don't-Work-Because-The-Girls-Are-Actually-Vastly-Different-From-Each-Other continues with...
"I’m also lamenting her likeness to other female protagonists like Lisbeth, Katniss, Merida, who are all head strong, independent, bad ass ninja she devils who are just so good at everything and perfect to a fault. It gets really boring seeing the same character in different skin in all the media."
and
"As you describe me not liking all these girls being fierce is because all these girls are practically the same person. “I’m just too cool to follow the rules/break tradition but it’s ok because with my amazing beauty, amazing intellect, unreasonable proficiency at everything, I can breeze through all problems with little to no trouble at all.”"
Ha ha oh wow, now I know you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Let's go down that list and talk about how those girls, while capable in their own rights, are not in fact "good at everything" or "perfect to a fault", shall we?
Lisbeth Salander: Is ruthless and relentless and has no shortage of mental health issues, including an inability to conform to social norms. She is obviously troubled and traumatized and very damaged from her life experiences. Fits absolutely none of the definitions of conventional beauty with her piercings, tattoos, and dyed pixie cut.
Katniss Everdeen: Clearly suffers from PSTD. Is terrible at reading people and relating to them. Can be very selfish and "me first" at times. Spends a lot of time getting manipulated and used by various factions. Is considered to be pretty by a couple characters but is not "amazingly beautiful". She's good at archery because she trained for years and years at it but she's really just an "okay" fighter, not much of a physical badass at all. She spends most of her time in the books just trying to survive the stuff thrown at her by the skin of her teeth, and very rarely does all that much to actually overcome the obstacles. She's introverted and quiet and morose, not headstrong. Have you even seen any of the trailers for the Hunger Games film? Notice how Katniss seems to be constantly anxious and worried and terrified? How does this in any way fit your "badass ninja she devil" mode?
Merida: Brash and impulsive yes. Headstrong and rebellious yes. But also screws up tremendously and nearly dooms everything she loves and holds dear and feels tremendous guilt about it the rest of the film, and becomes desperate to fix her mistake and atone for the wrong she's caused. AKA Character Development.
Basically none of these girls are remotely carbon copies of each other in the slightest and your dismissing of all of them as some kind of stereotypical flat Strong Female Character or Mary Sue is misguided at best. Pretty much all of these girls have very visible and obvious flaws, and again, two of them we haven't even seen their character development for so it's ridiculous to make snap judgements and assumptions based on a few generic personality traits they happen to possess. As many of the people commenting have said:
WAIT FOR THE FREAKING SHOW TO AIR!
"Definition for mary sue:
Web definitions:A fictional character, usually female and especially in fanfic, whose implausible talents and likeableness weaken the story.
So being able to bend 3 out of 4 elements at 5 years old sounds a lot like “implausible talent” and if the fandom is any indication of how the characters in the show are going to respond, she has so seriously “implausible likeableness”.
"Implausible likeableness" only applies to CHARACTER REACTIONS IN THE TEXT, not fandom reactions you moron.
To explain: One of the leaked clips we've had shows itty bitty five year old Korra performing some basic earthbending, firebending, and waterbending moves to some White Lotus members to prove she's the Avatar, and being cutely enthusiastic and bragging about this. That's it. A couple novice bending moves. Yet from the way the fandom's reacting you'd think she was a complete master at age five.
Give me a break! If Aang is not a Gary Stu for being a master airbender at twelve and then reasonably mastering the other three elements within a single year, then neither is Korra knowing some basic baby bending of three of the four elements at five which then takes her twelve years to fully master (and maybe not even then because the council was reluctant to pass her) a Mary Sue.
Someone points out the obvious trouble Korra will have mastering airbending and the response is...
"Ok, she will have problem’s with airbending and you know what? She will explode into rage everytime she fails. Then after an hour of exploding, she have a moment of peace wash over her and she will master airbending. "
Oh, and you know this HOW exactly when NONE OF US HAVE SEEN THE SHOW YET?
"You think I need to have facts before I have an opinion? That is precious.
I’ve seen a lot of people with Korra’s attitude in my 26 years and I know that they will always respond to frustration with anger. "
...Of course. You know Korra will explode into rage because you've "seen a lot of people with Korra's attitude". In real life. That makes sense.
Actually no it doesn't because your experience =/= what will happen on the show and you're making assumptions based on what little you know of Korra's personality. Again, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE SHOW YET. None of us know how Korra is going to grow and change so stop it with your baseless theories.
"I’m pretty sure none of the girls in the original were called Mary Sues"
And you would be wrong because pretty much every single girl on Avatar with a relatively important part to play had the Mary Sue accusation lobbed at her at least once. Katara? Oh so very much. She got the brunt of it in fact. Toph? Yep. Azula? Uh-huh. Suki? You betcha. Hell, even Song and Jin didn't escape the cries of "MARY SUE!11!!", mostly because they dared to have significant interactions with Zuko.
Calling Sue has been a classic way for fandom to dismiss and belittle female characters for forever. The concept of the Mary Sue itself is inherently problematic. That you see nothing sexist about perpetuating this method of tearing down female characters because they dare to be something you don't approve of (in this case independent, strong-willed, fiery, badass, and fiercely capable) makes you ignorant at best.
"Frankly, I could care less what you think. You have not given me one fact to lead me to believe Korra isn’t the Belle Swan of Avatar. She’s a fucking flat character so all the Avatar fan-girls can insert themselves into the story to make their coochies wet."
Oh screw you, you misogynistic prick. I'm done.
"Frankly, when you make a 1 dimensional female character who is the best at everything, pretty, and completely flat as a character, she will be labeled a Mary Sue.
From what I’ve seen of Korra, she’s pretty, brave, a bad ass martial artist, retardedly good at her trade (being the avatar and knowing 3 forms of bending by the time she is 5 rather than traveling the world and finding a master to teach her like EVERY avatar before her)
Who else does that sound like?
Merida, she’s pretty, brave, a bad ass martial artist, retardedly good at her trade (archery)
Katniss, she’s pretty, brave, a bad ass martial artist, retardedly good at her trade (archery and survival)
Lesbeth, she’s pretty, brave, a bad ass martial artist, retardedly good at her trade (hacking)"
The first thing y'all ought to know is that neither Korra's show The Legend of Korra nor Merida's movie Brave have even come out yet. So our dear fanperson is basing their judgement upon literally two to three minutes of material at best. Wow, apparently that's enough to determine that Korra will be one-dimensional and have no flaws and be a completely unrealisitc perfect character who can do no wrong!
Yeah right.
The bizarre Comparisons-Which-Don't-Work-Because-The-Girls-Are-Actually-Vastly-Different-From-Each-Other continues with...
"I’m also lamenting her likeness to other female protagonists like Lisbeth, Katniss, Merida, who are all head strong, independent, bad ass ninja she devils who are just so good at everything and perfect to a fault. It gets really boring seeing the same character in different skin in all the media."
and
"As you describe me not liking all these girls being fierce is because all these girls are practically the same person. “I’m just too cool to follow the rules/break tradition but it’s ok because with my amazing beauty, amazing intellect, unreasonable proficiency at everything, I can breeze through all problems with little to no trouble at all.”"
Ha ha oh wow, now I know you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Let's go down that list and talk about how those girls, while capable in their own rights, are not in fact "good at everything" or "perfect to a fault", shall we?
Lisbeth Salander: Is ruthless and relentless and has no shortage of mental health issues, including an inability to conform to social norms. She is obviously troubled and traumatized and very damaged from her life experiences. Fits absolutely none of the definitions of conventional beauty with her piercings, tattoos, and dyed pixie cut.
Katniss Everdeen: Clearly suffers from PSTD. Is terrible at reading people and relating to them. Can be very selfish and "me first" at times. Spends a lot of time getting manipulated and used by various factions. Is considered to be pretty by a couple characters but is not "amazingly beautiful". She's good at archery because she trained for years and years at it but she's really just an "okay" fighter, not much of a physical badass at all. She spends most of her time in the books just trying to survive the stuff thrown at her by the skin of her teeth, and very rarely does all that much to actually overcome the obstacles. She's introverted and quiet and morose, not headstrong. Have you even seen any of the trailers for the Hunger Games film? Notice how Katniss seems to be constantly anxious and worried and terrified? How does this in any way fit your "badass ninja she devil" mode?
Merida: Brash and impulsive yes. Headstrong and rebellious yes. But also screws up tremendously and nearly dooms everything she loves and holds dear and feels tremendous guilt about it the rest of the film, and becomes desperate to fix her mistake and atone for the wrong she's caused. AKA Character Development.
Basically none of these girls are remotely carbon copies of each other in the slightest and your dismissing of all of them as some kind of stereotypical flat Strong Female Character or Mary Sue is misguided at best. Pretty much all of these girls have very visible and obvious flaws, and again, two of them we haven't even seen their character development for so it's ridiculous to make snap judgements and assumptions based on a few generic personality traits they happen to possess. As many of the people commenting have said:
WAIT FOR THE FREAKING SHOW TO AIR!
"Definition for mary sue:
Web definitions:A fictional character, usually female and especially in fanfic, whose implausible talents and likeableness weaken the story.
So being able to bend 3 out of 4 elements at 5 years old sounds a lot like “implausible talent” and if the fandom is any indication of how the characters in the show are going to respond, she has so seriously “implausible likeableness”.
"Implausible likeableness" only applies to CHARACTER REACTIONS IN THE TEXT, not fandom reactions you moron.
To explain: One of the leaked clips we've had shows itty bitty five year old Korra performing some basic earthbending, firebending, and waterbending moves to some White Lotus members to prove she's the Avatar, and being cutely enthusiastic and bragging about this. That's it. A couple novice bending moves. Yet from the way the fandom's reacting you'd think she was a complete master at age five.
Give me a break! If Aang is not a Gary Stu for being a master airbender at twelve and then reasonably mastering the other three elements within a single year, then neither is Korra knowing some basic baby bending of three of the four elements at five which then takes her twelve years to fully master (and maybe not even then because the council was reluctant to pass her) a Mary Sue.
Someone points out the obvious trouble Korra will have mastering airbending and the response is...
"Ok, she will have problem’s with airbending and you know what? She will explode into rage everytime she fails. Then after an hour of exploding, she have a moment of peace wash over her and she will master airbending. "
Oh, and you know this HOW exactly when NONE OF US HAVE SEEN THE SHOW YET?
"You think I need to have facts before I have an opinion? That is precious.
I’ve seen a lot of people with Korra’s attitude in my 26 years and I know that they will always respond to frustration with anger. "
...Of course. You know Korra will explode into rage because you've "seen a lot of people with Korra's attitude". In real life. That makes sense.
Actually no it doesn't because your experience =/= what will happen on the show and you're making assumptions based on what little you know of Korra's personality. Again, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE SHOW YET. None of us know how Korra is going to grow and change so stop it with your baseless theories.
"I’m pretty sure none of the girls in the original were called Mary Sues"
And you would be wrong because pretty much every single girl on Avatar with a relatively important part to play had the Mary Sue accusation lobbed at her at least once. Katara? Oh so very much. She got the brunt of it in fact. Toph? Yep. Azula? Uh-huh. Suki? You betcha. Hell, even Song and Jin didn't escape the cries of "MARY SUE!11!!", mostly because they dared to have significant interactions with Zuko.
Calling Sue has been a classic way for fandom to dismiss and belittle female characters for forever. The concept of the Mary Sue itself is inherently problematic. That you see nothing sexist about perpetuating this method of tearing down female characters because they dare to be something you don't approve of (in this case independent, strong-willed, fiery, badass, and fiercely capable) makes you ignorant at best.
"Frankly, I could care less what you think. You have not given me one fact to lead me to believe Korra isn’t the Belle Swan of Avatar. She’s a fucking flat character so all the Avatar fan-girls can insert themselves into the story to make their coochies wet."
Oh screw you, you misogynistic prick. I'm done.