In Defense of Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy VII

[insaneladybug]

I've been thinking for some time about the odd and often ludicrous arguments that come up when people dislike or even hate Cloud Strife. Today it suddenly occurred to me that I should write a little defense for him. This is for the original Final Fantasy VII Cloud, even though I also like his counterpart from Kingdom Hearts (who is a completely

Comments

[bofoddity]

Although I actually resent the ZACK + CLOUD = BFF!!1!!! idea a little, that second argument is just utterly ridiculous. I also like how it's ignored that Cloud never, in fact, stole Zack's entire life, but rather used Zack's life to make his own more glorious. But I guess simplifying things is the way of the bashers. (See also: "Tifa was a bitch to him when they were kids! How dare she not worship the ground beneath his feet?!")

As for the fourth argument, I have to laugh how those people have managed to miss the point of Cloud's character: What made him so great that he was a nobody with all the odds against him, only to victor anyway, and his victories wouldn't have had such impact if he hadn't been deconstructed from a cool mercenary to a poser. That's why his victories mattered so much. But if Last Order managed to miss that point, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the fans do too, though in different ways.

The emo argument makes me see more red than any other arguments because if you bother to look beneath the surface,

[insaneladybug]

Totally agreed about your assessment of the fourth argument! I threw that one in there mainly because I've actually seen people upset because Cloud rose from being a nobody to being a somebody. It boggles my brain.

**reads your rant.** Suicidal Cloud has got to be one of the most idiotic fan concepts out there. The poor guy is depressed, but what caring person wouldn't feel that way, after all that? And depressed does not always equate MUST DIE NOW. **rolls eyes.**

And flawed characters are totally great, indeed. Cloud is fascinating because of his strengths AND his weaknesses, and how he deals with them.

[bofoddity]

Yeah, a lot of people have trouble understanding that being depressed doesn't always mean you're suicidal as well, nor that you're into self-harm. Self-neglect (poor hygiene, etc.) is just as bad as cutting yourself, even if it lacks the drama. :P

Also, I feel I should apology for forcing the rant on you. Sometimes I forget how I like to let loose with the capslock.

[insaneladybug]

XD That's alright. It was a very interesting read, and I liked how you put in quotes from the game and movie (and novel) to back you up. ^^ It definitely drove home how many layers Cloud has to his personality.

I was especially interested in how you talked of Cloud's anger towards Sephiroth, that without Sephiroth Cloud would have no one to blame but himself. That's one of the concepts I've explored a lot in a post-DoC fanfiction series of mine. ^^

[bofoddity]

Those quotes probably did a better job of illustrating my point than I myself did, so they were a natural choice. :D Cloud's anger often seems to be ignored, which I think is a pity because it's an interesting thing to explore. I bet you get a kick out of getting to work with it in your fic.

[llivla]

I'd agree about 'forgetting everything he learned', but actually AC doesn't immediately follow the game; in between is a small story that was released called 'Ways to a Smile' where Cloud was somewhat happier, where he found Marlene and Denzel, and then he was assaulted by more memories in his sleep like a PTS thing, and then he found the Geostigma and they wrote his reaction to feel like it was a slap in the face--after all he'd done, after he made the decision to keep moving forward, he was going to die. So what was the point of it all? Cut to AC.

... <---nerd. *goes to read and probably memory your rant*

[bofoddity]

I've seen "On the Way to a Smile", and it justified some of his AC-characterization to me. However, learning to count on his friends instead of being a loner was one of the big aspects of his character development in the game (in fact, even before the revelation about his past, he did admit that he was afraid of both Sephiroth and himself and asked others to be there for him), so I didn't entirely buy just how much he closed up during Smile and AC. But I think there would have been less emo accusations if Smile had been available before AC. Fans could have used some background info (without Smile, for example, I found Denzel hard to empathize with).

[llivla]

I don't know; people sometimes don't make sense, and that's kind of why I wouldn't have been surprised either way. Plus during war and post war behavior is different. All of it stopped and yet it didn't, because he couldn't pin Geostigma and his social problems on Sephiroth literally, like he could be angry immediately after Aerith died because Jenovah/Sephiroth killed her. Again, post war behavior/guilt/dredged up crap just makes you tired, so either way Cloud was kind of normal to me. PLUS IF HE WASN'T EMO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE DIFF FOR THE WRITERS IN THE MOVIE OKAY? lol.

Maybe some of the Tifa bashing would have stopped too, as you go from 13 where she seriously didn't know he existed, then she sees him for TWO seconds after her dad dies, then like...years after Cloud's happytime vacation with Hojo where he's competely fsked up, and then in AC she's all motherly/lovey-eyes/buddy-buddy IKNOWYOU. Smile at least explains where the kids are from, otherwise I know some literally thought they were Cloud's and Tifa's. *thud*

I found

[bofoddity]

Well, my view of Cloud had time to settle in for years before AC ever came out, so AC-Cloud will probably never entirely work for me, but I think he makes sense as a character: I even wrote about how he makes sense to me. It's fanon I have more problems with in the end.

I'm not sure what you mean by the Tifa-bashing, but I guess some people would have liked her more if she had been straight-forward from the beginning, but since the game is supposed to keep you interested for days, I had no problems with her characterization. But just like with Cloud, her flaws are too much for some people. Because her existence should apparently be dedicated to Cloud. Or something. :P

[llivla]

No, that poor girl will be bashed no matter what because apparently she isn't Aerith, but if she had worshipped the ground he walked on, it might've been worse (see Sakura from Naruto) D; Oh the unfortunate fate of being a female and within two feet of the male eye candy.

*goes to read your thing*

[slayerofgod]

Maybe some of the Tifa bashing would have stopped too, as you go from 13 where she seriously didn't know he existed, then she sees him for TWO seconds after her dad dies, then like...years after Cloud's happytime vacation with Hojo where he's competely fsked up, and then in AC she's all motherly/lovey-eyes/buddy-buddy IKNOWYOU.

Um, you're leaving out a whole bunch of important stuff from game canon, like the well promise, and the lifestream seqeunce where she literally helped him piece his mind back together.

Unless I'm missing something.

[insaneladybug]

Yeaaah, I was thinking exactly the same thing. XD;;

[llivla]

No no, I haven't. ^^; She also completely put aside the rebellion to take care of him when he was unconscious in Mideel, as well as an incredibly cute/heart-warming/frustrating conversation before the final battle with Sephiroth. I was just typing flippantly they didn't know each other very well in their childhood, definitely not best friends, and in ff he spent most of his time rather busy dealing with the whole problem of his identity in addiction to UST. ;3

[insaneladybug]

I must read Smile all the way through. I know once I read some of Denzel's story, but I never got to Tifa's. XD; Bad me.

I like your description of what happens in Smile. It does sound like it ties everything together all neatly. I never really thought there was a conflict between AC and the original game, so hence, I never understood the immense dislike of AC. XD; I love all the Compilation.

[llivla]

I suppose I loved it because I think traumatized characters deserve all the time they want to mourn, since I can't ever hug them myself. D; I just feel so bad, and...he kind of led a -war-, against the best General in this game. And then there's the knowledge Sephiroth was Zack's friend. Zack who died. So he couldn't save Aerith, Zack, or Sephiroth, (but he did help save the world, and Vincent, etc) and in AC it got personal again, but he was finally on time to save Tifa, finally on time to save Denzel and Marlene. So it was all symbolic for me, the jaded boy screaming at the sky and thinking "I can't save anyone to save myself" to the shyish "I feel...lighter, guess I lost it, doing all that dillydallying"/ and passionate, realization of "You never understand me (Sephiroth)--there's not a thing in this world I don't cherish!"

Sorry for the tl;dr. xD